8: Portrait interview with Marijke Vuik, President of Royal Catering Netherlands

Transcript

HOTEL BOX - EPISODE 8

Interview with Marijke Vuik - President Koninklijke Horeca Nederland 
Host: Jerry Helmers 

[00:00] Introduction to the podcast
Jerry Helmers: Lightspeed Restaurant, the leading platform for the best hospitality entrepreneurs worldwide. Welcome to Hotelvak, the podcast. The podcast about entrepreneurship in the hospitality sector.

[00:17] Introduction by guest Marijke Vuik
Jerry Helmers: My name is Jerry Helmers and in this episode we have none other than Marijke Vuik as our guest. She is president of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland. And we do it in a special place, because I travelled to Woerden with the mobile podcast studio. Yes, and anyone who works in the hospitality industry knows: Woerden is where the head office is. Marijke, nice to be here. Or should I say welcome to this podcast? Or do you say: nice to be in Woerden?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, thank you. Yes, nice to have you here in our new office. Because we've only been here for a month.

[00:50] New slogan of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland
Jerry Helmers: Yes exactly. And we're sitting at a huge banner that says: Come Further. And that's kind of become your new credo from Royal Catering Netherlands. I think we're going to come back to that today as well. But are you feeling up to this podcast?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, an awful lot.

Jerry Helmers: Because left or right, it's a special day. Rob Jetten has started as prime minister. That's the day we are recording. So we are undoubtedly going to revisit the cabinet plans as well. But before we do that, we have a few things we want to discuss in this podcast. And, of course, we want to introduce you in a bit more detail. I want to present you with some dilemmas to which you can then answer only agree or disagree. Do you dare?

Marijke Vuik: I dare you to do that.

[01:30] Round of propositions
Jerry Helmers: OK, then I'm going to put on my reading glasses and say the first statement. I'm curious. The government is currently a bigger threat to the hospitality industry than the market itself.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree.

Jerry Helmers: Thesis two. The hospitality industry should stop complaining and, above all, learn to do better business.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, that's because there are two points in it. But assuming I can explain it later: disagree.

Jerry Helmers: Without foreign labour, the Dutch hospitality industry will collapse within two years.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree.

Jerry Helmers: For many hospitality entrepreneurs, sustainability is mainly a cost and not an opportunity.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree.

Jerry Helmers: Politicians fundamentally do not understand how the hospitality industry works in practice.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, that is indeed where we are in the word fundamental. Then I would now say: there are still improvements to be made. So then agree.

Jerry Helmers: Hospitality entrepreneurs have too many rules, but also sometimes make it unnecessarily complicated for themselves.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree.

Jerry Helmers: As chairman of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland, I sometimes have to pound the table harder in The Hague.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree.

Jerry Helmers: The hospitality industry is still not a full-fledged career choice in the eyes of many Dutch people.

Marijke Vuik: Disagree. A very clear disagree.

[03:06] Topics of conversation
Jerry Helmers: Good. No doubt we're going to come back to it, to some of the statements we just discussed. What else are we going to do in this podcast? We're going to discuss the current challenges in the hospitality industry. It's obviously changing in the job market. We want to talk about image and hospitality. How is the Dutch hospitality industry doing? I would like to know how Koninklijke Horeca Nederland sees the relationship with hoteliers. As a fourth point, I'd like to touch on the World Cup with you. I hope you are also looking forward to it, like many other Dutch people. Well, the policy plan you have I also have as my fifth topic. But is it also a good chance that that is going to come back to the four previous themes we are going to discuss. And who knows, you might have a closing call for all the listeners. But we will see. But first, Marijke: before we get all deep into the content, who are you, where are you from and what made you decide to do this advocacy work in addition to your own entrepreneurship?

[04:06] Combining entrepreneurship and chairmanship
Marijke Vuik: Yes, well anyway for this position it is a requirement that you are also an entrepreneur. So every chairman of KHN is also an entrepreneur. But it's true, it's sometimes difficult to combine it. And that just has to do with the fact that it's a function that takes a lot of time. So that you have less time for your own businesses. But I have to say, fortunately that's actually going quite well. I'm incredibly proud of the team that's in my companies. So managing to combine it in a good way at the moment.

Jerry Helmers: But anyway, so you have already been able to organise this, because you have several catering facilities. Can you briefly talk about that?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, they are cafes in the centre of Delft. And it is indeed true that I already knew for a while that I was going to do this before I started in 2023. So that did give me time to hire extra people and to organise certain processes you need for this differently. And in that respect, yes, I am now three years away from the companies a bit more. But there are still plenty of people I know very well from before. And I do try to still be present in the company at all crucial moments.

[05:17] The core of a hospitality business
Jerry Helmers: For you, what is at the heart of running a hospitality business?

Marijke Vuik: What matters is that for every entrepreneur it's actually the same: you want to create a certain experience. Hospitality is of course a term that always comes back.

Jerry Helmers: But so is perception.

Marijke Vuik: Experience too, it is. But it is about people. It's about providing a place where people come together. And that's also what really binds the hospitality industry together. Sometimes you hear that the hospitality industry is hugely diverse, and so what binds us? Well, that's really what binds us: that we bring people together and that added value we have as a hospitality industry for society as a whole. Very simple: a city where there is no hospitality industry, you don't want to live there.

Jerry Helmers: No exactly. So are those cities there?

Marijke Vuik: No, there certainly aren't. No, but just as an image. Everyone can imagine that. Because the hospitality industry just offers an awful lot. And it's mainly about: the place where people come together, that connection.

[06:09] Start in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: Why did you ever start in the hospitality industry yourself?

Marijke Vuik: Well, first as a part-time job, like many, of course. Then I also worked a lot in the hospitality industry alongside my studies. And I noticed at some point during my studies that I became much happier, got much more energy from working in the hospitality industry than from my studies. And then you slowly grow towards it. I didn't do hotel school, did a totally different education.

Jerry Helmers: Industrial design in Delft.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, that's right.

[06:41] From entrepreneur to chairman KHN
Jerry Helmers: And suddenly you're chairman of Royal Catering Netherlands.

Marijke Vuik: There are 20 years in between, so to that extent we have done some other things in the meantime. I started my first café when I was 22. Then I got a chance that I could take over a location. At that time, it was a vegetarian restaurant. At the time, in the early 2000s, when there weren't very many vegetarians. Those hadn't made it. So I was able to change the entire concept, actually take out the entire interior and put down my own concept. And that was really cool to be able to do at such a young age.

[07:11] Luck and timing in entrepreneurship
Jerry Helmers: Is it luck or is that already the basis of good entrepreneurship?

Marijke Vuik: I think it's always a combination. As an entrepreneur, you always have a good dose of luck. That always helps. For me, it was so that I was very interested in what subsequently turned out to be hugely booming: speciality beer. Because I started in 2005 and in the years that followed, that was really booming. So I think it's a combination of the right concept at the right time that just made it a huge success.

Jerry Helmers: But anyway, you have to have a feel for that, what concept you are going to put down in the end, right? So you do have to have a view of society. Or am I making it too big now?

Marijke Vuik: I think you are making it too big. I think the most important thing is to have passion as an entrepreneur. Everything starts with passion and a dream of someone when someone starts. And surely that's easier if it's really a passion of yours than you know that marketing-wise it fits well in the market at that moment. So I think if it's really that intrinsic motivation, that you can also really make something a success yourself. That does provide a basis.

[08:12] Becoming chairman of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland
Jerry Helmers: But was it ever a dream for you to become chairman of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland? You also have a family. This work for you as chairman also takes an incredible amount of time. I don't know if you have to be in The Hague at any time, but I said it just now at the beginning of this podcast: today is the day the new cabinet is on the platform. So I can so imagine that you regularly have to go to The Hague from Delft. That is fortunately not so far away, but you will have to drink many cups of coffee.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, I am there regularly indeed. But how beautiful is it? How beautiful is it that you get to dedicate yourself, that you get to be the face of the hospitality industry that you have so much passion for yourself and that you can dedicate yourself to making it better for entrepreneurs as well. So I just find that incredibly beautiful to be able to do that.

[08:58] Social commitment
Jerry Helmers: But then are you already socially engaged, socially committed by nature?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, well, but that is slightly different. I was also a councillor in Delft before this. What I really like is to be able to dedicate yourself to something in order to help others. You commit yourself to a sector and then it is very nice to get results for it. In this case, it's for entrepreneurs, for an industry you're passionate about. To be able to really make a difference.

Jerry Helmers: But this is then also because entrepreneurs individually could never manage that?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, look, as an industry organisation we have 17,000 members affiliated to us. That of course makes your voice count and you do get to sit at the table somewhere in The Hague. And you can't do that as an individual entrepreneur. You can't.

[09:29] Advocacy for the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: So in that sense, that's also your passion to be able to do something for the collective. I'd like to discuss a number of topics with you, because then we do make that bridge to advocacy. What do you think are the biggest challenges in the Dutch hospitality industry at the moment?

Marijke Vuik: I think the biggest challenge in the hospitality industry has to do with the fact that margins are under enormous pressure and that doing business is really a lot harder at the moment. And then people often refer to corona. And sure, corona has been a very difficult time. Indeed, for entrepreneurs often still the reality of the day now, as they are still paying off debts from that period.

[10:20] The ‘perfect storm’ after corona
Marijke Vuik: But it's in a combination with the period after that. Right after that, of course, the energy crisis. Gigantic inflation. On the cost side, everything went up so much. And that's not quite under control. And so we see that very much reflected now. We did a big survey among our members, which indicated that one in five is not currently in the black, breaking even or making a loss. And that is very worrying indeed.

[10:53] Hospitality sector recovers slower than other sectors
Marijke Vuik: CBS also shows these figures. The hospitality industry does do just a little less well - actually quite a lot less well - than some other sectors. But that also has to do with the fact that actually there has been a kind of perfect storm. First a gigantic crisis, the corona crisis. We were just hit so hard by that that it is not strange that it takes five or 10 years to recover from that. And then add to that all the other challenges.

[11:21] Price increases not to be passed on in full
Marijke Vuik: You can never pass everything on in prices. That's also how the economy works. Studies show that price increases are never passed on one-to-one in the selling price. And what we also have to deal with, of course, is that consumers know very well what they pay in the catering industry. So they are aware of price increases. That sometimes makes entrepreneurs cautious about it. But also: if the price goes up, then of course you can sell less. So you have to find a certain balance. And that's really up to each entrepreneur individually.

[11:56] Is there a maximum price for a cup of coffee?
Jerry Helmers: But then, for example, is there a cap on the price for a cup of coffee that you could charge?

Marijke Vuik: No, indeed I often get this question. But everything also has to do with the time you live in. Because if you go shopping now, you will also notice that you spend a lot more money on groceries. Yet you get used to that in a few years. So a price is always determined by the individual entrepreneur. It has to do with so many factors. We can't say: this is a good guide price. And we're not allowed to, by the way. But that's not something you can say either. Because it's just down to so many different factors.

[12:30] Why prices vary by location
Marijke Vuik: It depends on the area you're in. In the Randstad, it's different from outside. But also what kind of square you're in, what your rent is. So it depends on so many different factors what ultimately becomes the selling price of a cup of coffee. The only thing is that due to high inflation, life has become very much more expensive and people do get used to that.

[12:50] Sustainability and innovation as big issues
Jerry Helmers: Can we do something with that inflation or against inflation? And there is also a lot of talk about sustainability in the industry. You can think what you like about it, but there are also a lot of people in the Netherlands who say: sustainability, whatever. It costs me too much money. Maybe we should put the sustainability ambitions aside a bit.

Marijke Vuik: Well, I don't think so. Definitely not. Indeed, you also have sustainability and innovation. Those are actually the two big issues for the hospitality industry. It's actually not even how we deal with it. It is necessary to be future-oriented in business.

[13:24] Why innovation is necessary
Jerry Helmers: So what exactly is needed?

Marijke Vuik: Well, if you look at innovation first, for example. We have a tightness in the labour market. And that is structural and that is permanent. Because we are facing ageing and de-greening. So there are fewer young people and there are fewer older people. In short: fewer people will be available in the future for the same amount of work. Then labour productivity needs to go up. And how can you make that happen? And then you sometimes hear in the hotel and catering industry: you can't innovate in the hotel and catering industry, because it is people's work. And that's true. But we see so many good examples.

[14:03] Robotisation and automation in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: But then give some examples. Maybe also as inspiration for that listener, that entrepreneur who thinks: yes, she can call it innovation. But how? Give some concrete examples.

Marijke Vuik: There are three main pillars that fall under innovation. And first when we talk about robotisation - yes, because that is what is often asked about as well. What it's about is that any company can map processes. And then there are some processes that you don't want to automate. And that mainly has to do with your contact with your guests, because you want to give a certain experience. But all the processes behind the scenes - that could be faster routing, that could be different equipment.

[14:49] Practical example: cleaning robots in hotels
Marijke Vuik: In a hotel, this could be something very simple, which of course you see a lot of, for example, cleaning robots. These really don't ensure that a room can be cleaned independently, but they do ensure that the work is lighter, can be done faster and therefore with fewer people.

Jerry Helmers: That also applies in kitchens and so there are an awful lot of processes you can automate. But entrepreneurs also say: that's right, robotisation, but we don't have the margins to invest in this.

[15:09] AI as low-threshold innovation
Marijke Vuik: No, and that is exactly a challenge as well. Because indeed, some investments don't cost money either. When it comes to deploying AI, for example. Deploying AI for, say -

Jerry Helmers: Artificial intelligence.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, artificial intelligence.

Jerry Helmers: For the few hospitality entrepreneurs in the Netherlands who have never heard of AI.

Marijke Vuik: That seems to me that those are no longer there at the moment. But also in that: smart data is of course the future again. Then you will also have predictive values. Then you can also schedule timetables better. Then you will have fewer idle hours for staff if you already know what more is coming. If something has more predictive value. But you can also use AI for social media.

[15:59] AI reservation systems and new technology
Marijke Vuik: So there are an awful lot of small steps. And sometimes it's much bigger. You also have of course now what was very clearly visible at the Horecava. For example, all those reservation systems on AI. Well, that can of course bring an awful lot. And then the question is always: what type of business is it? So do you want that part still contacting people yourself? Or can you have the first-line questions already answered by AI? There are a lot of opportunities. But the only reason really that we need to do this is because in the future there will be fewer people for the same amount of work. So we have to work in a different way.

[16:25] Does the sector realise the need to innovate?
Jerry Helmers: But does the ordinary hospitality man or woman realise this?

Marijke Vuik: Yes. And look, often you get the answer of no. But if you ask around, you see that even smaller companies are taking the first steps. And sometimes it is true: you don't have to have all these robots driving around. Because that's really not what the future of the hospitality industry is going to look like. But then investments have already been made in smarter kitchen equipment, for instance. Or a certain way of making grids has already been thought through very carefully, allowing for certain savings.

[16:59] Innovation from sustainability and cost control
Marijke Vuik: Sometimes also because of conviction, if it's about sustainability or food waste, for example. That is sometimes an intrinsic motivation. But sometimes also because margins are under pressure, that you can just save on that too.

[17:16] Staff shortage as a structural problem
Jerry Helmers: You guys have a policy plan.

Marijke Vuik: Indeed, we have.

Jerry Helmers: And in that policy plan, you also specifically mention the staff shortage as a structural problem. This makes me wonder: is the hospitality industry in general still attractive enough as a sector? Or should we perhaps also start thinking about a fundamental repositioning?

Marijke Vuik: If you look: more than 500,000 people work in the hospitality industry. And then I'll mention it again anyway, the corona period. We halved the number of people then. And that's not because people didn't like working in the hospitality industry anymore. We were closed. So that means there was just a lot less work.

[18:01] Employment recovery after corona
Jerry Helmers: A lot of people have gone into healthcare, for example.

Marijke Vuik: To a lot of different sectors. But that also makes sense, because we didn't have the work either. So then it is logical that you also halve. And what is very clever of the industry is that within two years that has been fully recovered. We managed to double the number of people after corona, when we were fully open again. And so also the regular replacement demand to meet that. That's incredibly clever.

[18:33] Structural tightness in the labour market
Marijke Vuik: But it makes sense that there was a huge tightness experienced during that period. Now we are back to the level of six, seven years ago. That tightness is permanent, it is structural. But not as bad as it was a few years ago.

[18:46] Is hospitality still attractive as a sector?
Marijke Vuik: But is hospitality still attractive enough to work in? Yes, definitely. If you look at the fact that we manage to attract so many people to us and that there are therefore more than 500,000 people working in the hospitality industry, I am convinced that it is a very nice industry to work in.

[18:54] Generations in the workplace
Jerry Helmers: But are employers in the hospitality industry attuned to the wishes of the younger generation? Because they often don't want to work full-time anymore. Or who have a lot of wishes in terms of education and welfare. Whereby the boomer generation thinks: come on guys, if you work in the hospitality industry, you also have to push through. And I suspect you know this as an entrepreneur with several businesses as well: your finishing time of work is not always planned because that's the way things are in the hospitality industry. You do see another generation arriving who have a very different view of work.

[19:29] Working with the new generation
Marijke Vuik: Every generation has challenges, but it also has very positive sides. And I myself find this generation very nice to work with. Because on the one hand, yes, they work fewer hours. They have different priorities, on average - this is certainly not the case everywhere, of course - but when you talk about Gen Z. On the other hand, it is also the generation that grew up with a lot of speed around them. In terms of social media, they are constantly on. They also very much want to think along, especially when it comes to the bigger issues. About sustainability, for instance. So there is a lot of enthusiasm in the new generation. So I actually see more positive things than it is sometimes framed as.

[20:15] Competition in the labour market
Jerry Helmers: But isn't there intense competition in the labour market? That you say: we as a hospitality industry have to compete with other industries, because chances are that young people would also like to go there.

Marijke Vuik: Always. And competing then might be framed a little too negatively. But of course you always want to make sure that you show how nice working in the hospitality industry is. And that's also why we all have image campaigns.

[20:36] Pitch for working in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: Do a short one-minute pitch to convince any aspiring young hospitality employee. You should work in the hospitality industry.

Marijke Vuik: What's great about the hospitality industry is the contact with people. And what you can put down as a team. That's really what it's all about.

Jerry Helmers: Connecting with people can also be found in a lot of other places.

Marijke Vuik: Definitely. But also in the hospitality industry. And I do think the hospitality industry is a place where you can make a lot of steps in terms of your career. The hospitality industry is very broad. And there are many great stories of people who have made good progress in the industry. So on the one hand, it is great fun to work in, but it is also a serious industry in which you can make a good career.

[21:18] Corona debts in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: What is your solution to those corona debts? I want to go back to that, because you also said that within this context of the current challenges in the Dutch hospitality industry. There are an awful lot of hospitality companies - from hotels to restaurants, pubs, you name it - that have some debt to pay off. Today, the Jetten cabinet took office. Are you positive or negative that something will be done with that? Or what will the hospitality industry look like in two years' time?

Marijke Vuik: With corona debts - which is indeed something that sits quite a few years ago - there is now in the term that everyone can still pay off. That, of course, is five or seven years. That runs. I think mainly what is needed, because you have gone through such a big crisis, is time. You need time to recover. That's the most important thing. And that is not something that a next cabinet can really do anything about.

[22:10] Waiver of corona debts?
Jerry Helmers: Maybe you are going to throw in your charms to cancel the corona debts. Let me throw something into the group.

Marijke Vuik: No, but there is no question of that right now. Because you do need to know what is going on in The Hague and whether there would actually be a chance that parties would go along with this. And then the honest story is that of course that is not the case right now. For a lot of people, corona has also long sounded like something behind us. That doesn't mean we don't pay attention to it. It does not mean that we are very keen to support entrepreneurs on other issues. Only when it comes to the remission of deferred taxes - which you then often talk about - that is not something that is on the table now.

[22:52] Increase in VAT on accommodation
Jerry Helmers: Another thingy in this topic - I'll just call it a thingy, there will also be different views on that - the higher VAT since 1 January 2026.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, yes. This is my... I have been very much involved in this, really for many years. This is actually something that first surfaced back in 2022. At that time it had to do with research that came out, commissioned by the Ministry of Finance, on the effectiveness of reduced VAT rates. And even then it said: the reduced VAT rate for lodging is not efficient and not effective.

[23:22] Lobbying against VAT increase
Marijke Vuik: In the period that followed, Omtzigt in particular regularly introduced it as alternative coverage for motions and amendments. So we were very much into it then. Only at that time there was a majority that didn't have an ear for it. But we did know: the moment Omtzigt and the new NSC party became so big at the elections, there was a big risk this would come through. We have been working on it a lot over the past few years. Unfortunately, it went through.

[24:03] Disappointment over VAT increase
Jerry Helmers: So does this feel like a failure from Royal Catering Netherlands? That you think: golly, we failed. What did we do wrong in that lobby?

Marijke Vuik: Well, it's a question you always have to ask: could we have done it another way? This is something that plays out more broadly, though. It has now entered a new coalition agreement. Flowers, for instance, are the next to go from 9 per cent to 21 per cent. Of course, it is a bigger issue: how do you deal with reduced VAT rates? How many exceptions do you want to have? And do you perhaps eventually want to move towards some kind of flat tax system?

[24:26] Political reality behind the decision
Marijke Vuik: That's also what's behind it, that that's what's being looked at. Would I have wanted a different outcome? Yes, definitely. The tricky thing is that you also have to deal with reality from The Hague. Because in the revenues, 1.2 billion is budgeted for this.

[24:59] Impact of price increases on the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: But if prices go up as a result - if that cup of coffee is actually going to get more expensive - and we talked about price elasticity there a little while ago, then of course there is also a chance that people will actually spend less in the hospitality industry. And then it remains to be seen whether revenue for the government will go up.

Marijke Vuik: And that is exactly what we have been putting out in recent years. There have been several impact analyses that show exactly that.

[25:22] Economic chain reaction due to less tourism
Marijke Vuik: Plus you also shouldn't underestimate that the economic chain reaction is much bigger than purely for hotels. And hotels are the first to be hit hard by this.

Jerry Helmers: Yes, I can imagine something about that. But explain what you mean by chain reaction.

Marijke Vuik: The moment there are, say, 20 per cent fewer tourists, those tourists don't just spend money on hotel stays. They also spend money in local shops. They go by public transport. They go to museums. They go out to eat. So basically everything tourists spend then you miss.

[26:04] Competition with foreign countries
Marijke Vuik: What you actually get with this with this VAT increase - and what we are already seeing the first signs of - is that people who want to holiday in their own country are more likely not to go or go abroad. Because countries around us will become very much cheaper proportionally. And tourists from other countries will think again whether to come to the Netherlands or go to another area after all.

[26:13] Tourism and local politics
Jerry Helmers: That's true. I think that is, of course, a logical economic law. But if you look at a city like Amsterdam, for example, which, in my experience, bets on everything that there should be fewer tourists.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, that's another issue. Look, it's only about Amsterdam and I think there's plenty of discussion about that as well. The feeling of over-tourism may also have to do with day-trippers. So to what extent is that really due to the number of overnight stays? But with that, I do think that a fiscal measure - such as a VAT increase - should never be used to actually make fewer people come somewhere.

[26:56] Transition to hospitality theme
Jerry Helmers: Then we go to the second topic I'd like to discuss with you and that is the industry's image and hospitality. I myself was once on BNR Nieuwsradio and then there was also a hospitality thingy and I was in a kind of opinion panel there. And then I said - and then it exploded at Koninklijke Horeca Nederland, but it was still before the corona crisis, you know - the first best roadside restaurant in Germany along the motorway does better in terms of service than a five-star restaurant in the Netherlands.

Marijke Vuik: Oy.

[27:29] Discussion on Dutch hospitality
Jerry Helmers: Well, BNR News Radio exploded at that point. I thought it was funny in itself. I thought: this is what I think. And I got quite a lot of support for that on Twitter. But the point I am making is that I sometimes wonder: do we in the Netherlands understand what hospitality is? Because if you ask the average Dutch person, they will say: we could improve on that in the Netherlands. In some other countries, it is actually better.

Marijke Vuik: I am very curious as to why you think that. Because to me: if you look, walk into a city on a beautiful summer's day and the cosiness that comes from all the terraces there - that is really something unique to the Netherlands.

[28:11] Terrace culture in the Netherlands
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but is it because those people themselves are sociable or because the service is so incredibly sociable?

Marijke Vuik: I think that, as a company, you always put up something that people want to come to. And then the best compliment is that people are enjoying themselves and have a very positive feeling about it. But you have that in your own hands. Because are you going to sit somewhere that is not pleasant? No, you don't. So I think this is really due to the way we do business in the Netherlands, in the hospitality industry, and what we all do together. And that is really a hospitality that I think is unique. So I'm particularly curious where your opinion comes from.

[28:54] Speaking English in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: What you hear a lot of course, especially in the big cities, is that people are annoyed that you are only addressed in English. When I come to Amsterdam, for example, sometimes you almost can't get by with the Dutch language, even on ordinary terraces.

Marijke Vuik: Then I actually want to challenge: isn't it much more important that people are good at their jobs and what they can do? Then I am actually incredibly proud of how much diversity we have in our industry. How many nationalities work in the hospitality industry and what kind of place we offer for these people to just have a nice job.

Jerry Helmers: Sure, but being good at your job in the hospitality industry also means you might have to want to address guests in their own language - in Dutch, right?

Marijke Vuik: Not always. But that really has to do with the concept and which target group you are aiming at as a business. For example, I can speak from my own experience - I have two catering businesses in Delft - and they differ enormously in terms of audience. At one company, most employees don't speak Dutch. And they don't need to, because most of the people who come there are international visitors. So they are never asked about that either.

[30:07] Language used depending on the concept
Marijke Vuik: At the other company, I make sure there is always someone present who speaks Dutch. Because some older people sometimes come there. And they don't like having to order in English. Then employees can tell each other: you take that table and I'll take the rest. So it really depends on your concept and your target group.

Jerry Helmers: But also not a tiny bit of Dutch?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, they can count to a hundred and they can say hello, but it kind of ends there.

[30:44] Diversity in hospitality teams
Marijke Vuik: And I don't agree that people react negatively to that by default. To me, it's important that we are actually proud of the diversity in the hospitality industry.

Jerry Helmers: But by diversity, you mean that there are so many people from other countries working in the hospitality industry?

Marijke Vuik: Definitely. And all those different languages also bring something to a team.

Jerry Helmers: Yes, what then?

Marijke Vuik: That's the same as different generations in the workplace. But also different cultures, a good male-female ratio. All these aspects are important in a team.

[31:31] No-shows in restaurants
Marijke Vuik: Our partner Lightspeed does market research on all kinds of hospitality-related topics. And every episode we cover one of the topics and are curious to hear your views on it.

Jerry Helmers: Recent research by entrepreneur platform Lightspeed shows that 88 per cent of hospitality entrepreneurs face monthly no-shows. And that 92 per cent feel that guests are not sufficiently aware of the impact. Koninklijke Horeca Nederland is also increasingly receiving signals from entrepreneurs. How big is the no-show problem currently in the Netherlands and where do you think the main solution lies? Better technology such as reservation systems, stricter conditions such as down payments or no-show fees, or especially behavioural change among guests?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, this is indeed a problem. And I think the cause lies mainly in the fact that everything has become much more anonymous with all the technology. You often book online and then the distance sometimes seems greater to the catering establishment because you haven't spoken to anyone.

[32:28] Causes and solutions for no-shows
Marijke Vuik: Yes, this is indeed a problem. And I think the cause is mainly that actually everything has become much more anonymous with all the technology. You often book online and then the distance to the catering establishment sometimes seems greater, because you haven't spoken to anyone.

Marijke Vuik: There are a number of things that can help. On the one hand, some companies choose to ask for a deposit. But that is not appreciated everywhere. It also depends a bit on the region to what extent that is generally accepted. But of course it is an incentive that makes people come. We see that the number of no-shows really drops drastically as a result. So maybe that's something for the future that we need to continue.

[33:10] Memories and personal contact
Marijke Vuik: What also helps a lot, and we see a lot of companies doing that, is sending an automatically generated message on the day of the reservation saying: really nice of you to make a reservation, if you can't make it please let us know in time. Actually, more along those lines. Or that people call back. And that seems to have the best effect, because then you have personal contact again, which makes people less inclined not to show up.

[33:34] American hospitality as a comparison
Jerry Helmers: If you compare, for example, the Dutch hospitality industry with the hospitality industry in the United States - I don't know if you've ever been there - but if you're in a restaurant there, it goes in a completely different way. Like: hi, my name is Jerry, I'm your waiter for tonight, please ask me the question and call me. You kind of understand what I mean. I think anyone who has been to the United States knows what I mean. Can we learn something from that in the Netherlands? Or is it really too big a cultural difference?

Marijke Vuik: Sometimes it is also the same. Only I think above all we have to realise that we interact differently. We also greet each other differently. And that's different there too, of course. So it's just a cultural difference. That very enthusiastic way can work very well, but not everywhere either. It also depends on the concept.

[34:06] Cultural difference in hospitality
Jerry Helmers: But we Dutch might also find it a bit exaggerated when we are in America and are addressed that way by a waitress. Then we also have to chuckle a bit. And it's also a bit hypocritical when we in the Netherlands complain about the alleged poor hospitality.

Marijke Vuik: That really has to do with the expectation. That expectation is also different. So you don't necessarily have to be your best friends here in the Netherlands when you're working with guests. And I think that's the difference. If you look at people working in the hospitality industry in the Netherlands, they do have contact with guests and often a conversation. Only it's all just a bit less exuberant.

Jerry Helmers: Slightly less exuberant.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, a little less exuberant. But that is also not expected here in the Netherlands.

Jerry Helmers: But it can be fun sometimes.

Marijke Vuik: Definitely. If it suits you well. There are plenty of examples of people who are working with great enthusiasm and have very nice conversations with guests.

[35:29] Role of tips in hospitality
Jerry Helmers: But doesn't the difference also lie in the fact that in the United States, for example, people work much more on tips? That the focus there is on employees. And that in the Netherlands salaries are a bit higher and there is perhaps less urge to be extremely friendly to guests.

Marijke Vuik: No, I don't think so. Because I'm sure people who stand here working are also really trying their best. It's really just a cultural difference about how you treat each other, how you greet each other and how enthusiastically you do that.

Jerry Helmers: So the cultural difference.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, the cultural difference. At least it shouldn't feel fake. I think that's what the Dutch really need. Above all, it has to be very real and very pure. And that is the way we communicate with each other here. And that has nothing to do with a reward. It just really has to do with a different way of working.

[36:18] Training hospitality within the team
Jerry Helmers: But how do you train your own staff on ultimate hospitality? For example, at your two locations in Delft. Do you ever send in a mystery guest?

Marijke Vuik: No, not a mystery guest. We have done that in the past. In twenty years, we've done quite a few things. But now mainly engaging with each other. I think it's important to keep everyone enthusiastic. Because the moment people are enthusiastic at work, they are at work with a different energy. And that's really the basis for everything.

Marijke Vuik: But above all, to start the conversation with each other: what does hospitality mean? What role do you have in it? And do you also realise how important you are the moment you stand at work? Because you are the calling card of the whole company. And so is everyone individually.

[36:57] Learning from other hospitality businesses
Marijke Vuik: And sometimes what we also did - that was with us one of the employees who had that idea - we gave everyone a twenty euro and they went to other catering establishments. And they looked there: how am I greeted? What strikes me? What is positive? What is negative? We just walk in somewhere and see how it goes. Then we started discussing with each other what they noticed. And then we also agreed: you go to a location where you don't know anyone. And then you look at what hospitality means at that location and what it does to you. And how do you do that yourself in your own work? That actually resulted in very nice conversations.

[37:50] Does she miss working on the floor?
Jerry Helmers: Don't you miss that yourself, still literally standing behind the bar?

Marijke Vuik: Yes and no. Yes, I've always really enjoyed it. And the feeling that - of course - it's also hearty fun when you walk into your business and it's a full business and everyone is happy and they're working well. No, then I don't miss it now. But I do look back on it with a lot of pleasure.

[38:15] Relationship with the hotel industry
Jerry Helmers: Okay, third theme: relationship with hoteliers. How do you liaise with everyone working in the hotel industry?

Marijke Vuik: We have a very diverse and large constituency. So indeed cafés, restaurants, but also fast service and of course hotels. And I think the most important thing is to always emphasise in the big files what binds everybody together. But you also have a lot of industry-specific dossiers. And then it is kind of important to realise that you are an association. The real knowledge is with the entrepreneurs. So that means visiting members a lot and listening to them a lot: what is going on now and where can we help? Because you are an association for a reason. For hoteliers, for instance, we do that with a sounding board group and we also make sure that our members' council includes hoteliers. That member council monitors and steers everything we do. In this way, we ensure spread: different sectors, young entrepreneurs and different regions, so we can listen carefully to what is going on throughout the country.

[39:36] Entrepreneurial confidence and concerns among hoteliers
Jerry Helmers: So what do you hear now? It's spring now, well almost spring 2026. What are you hearing from hoteliers right now?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, still the worries too. And what I like best: entrepreneurs remain positive. I always really liked that when you talk about entrepreneurial confidence, which is then probed. That is invariably always lower than the confidence entrepreneurs have in their own businesses. If you ask how do you look at the whole industry and how do you look at your own business in the same period. And I do find that very distinctive. Because I also find it very beautiful about entrepreneurship, that this positivity is really there.

Jerry Helmers: But otherwise you don't need to go into business.

Marijke Vuik: No, exactly. But what we do hear more and more now are the concerns. Certainly when you talk about hoteliers, because that VAT increase is of course a very painful one. And there we also see now that there really is a decline. We hope, of course, that this will not continue. Our role now is mainly to monitor: what are the actual effects of the VAT increase? And making that known to political parties in The Hague. In combination with all the other issues at hand, such as sustainability, innovation and margins that are under pressure. It is simply more difficult to do business profitably at the moment.

[41:03] Sustainability in hotels
Jerry Helmers: Just a word on that sustainability. So what are the specific questions that hoteliers are asking on the topic of sustainability?

Marijke Vuik: That's actually very broad. It can have to do with making the premises more sustainable. It can have to do with processes within the company. What I personally liked was an initiative by a hotel group in Amsterdam. When it comes to reducing food waste. And there again, data is very important. A good baseline measurement: what exactly is food waste? How can we make sure we get that percentage down?

[41:40] Leveraging data against food waste
Marijke Vuik: There are systems for that, for example, where before food is thrown away a scan is made of what was on the plate. Within seconds you then know what is thrown away. Then you have data. And if you see that certain dishes are often thrown away, you can adjust portions or modify dishes. That's often where the biggest profit lies. Sometimes from intrinsic motivation because of sustainability, but sometimes also because it simply saves costs.

[42:00] Entrepreneurs' lack of time for sustainability and innovation
Jerry Helmers: But do entrepreneurs have the time to figure all that out? At the same time, we still have staff shortages. So those entrepreneurs themselves often have to step in, literally stand behind the bar. Do they even have time for that?

Marijke Vuik: We do indeed see that. Certainly at smaller companies we do hear that signal. Because we are organised in such a way that we also have very many local chapters. We have 234 local chapters, all with multiple board members. In total, there are about 1,200 departmental board members. And through them we get signals back from entrepreneurs that they sometimes have less time to deal with these kinds of issues, precisely because staff shortages mean they are needed more in their own businesses.

[43:34] Regulatory burden as a structural problem
Jerry Helmers: That's quite difficult. I don't think you as Royal Catering Association can solve that by yourselves either.

Marijke Vuik: No. Except that you can look at how to save time. For example, by looking at regulatory and administrative burdens. There's a reason why that's a big issue we're focusing on. On the other hand, we try to use image campaigns to ensure that there are enough people who want to work in the hospitality industry.

[43:59] Concrete approach to reduce rules
Jerry Helmers: But about this regulatory burden, we have been hearing for 20 or 30 years that there are too many rules. And it seems like we never manage to really reduce those rules. Do you have a concrete plan for that now?

Marijke Vuik: The momentum is really different now. That has to do with the fact that all political parties have said they want to work on reducing the regulatory burden. Former minister Vincent Karremans, for instance, really identified this as a spearhead. What we ourselves have done, because we have the practical knowledge, is to draw up a regulation pressure action plan. We handed that over to the minister and to the Lower House last January. In it, we describe not only the burdens of certain rules, but also concrete solutions to make them simpler.

[44:23] Example of regulatory burden: day manager on licence
Jerry Helmers: Give one concrete example of that. For all those hospitality entrepreneurs who haven't had time to read your policy plan.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, one example that really frustrates me is about the credentialing of the daytime supervisor. Very simply explained: the moment you serve alcohol, you have to have the Social Hygiene diploma. The entrepreneur must have that, the manager must have that - that all makes sense. But there is also an additional requirement that there must always be someone in the company, the day manager, who also has that diploma. That in itself is totally fine. There is also a register in which that is kept. So in case of an inspection, you can simply walk into a company, ask who the daytime supervisor is and check that in the register. But the problem is the administrative burden.

[45:06] Costs and administrative burden
Marijke Vuik: Every time there is a change of staff, you also have to inform the municipality. They then print out a new appendix to the licence with the names on it. And that appendix costs as much as three hundred euros each time in some municipalities.

Jerry Helmers: Three hundred euros?

Marijke Vuik: Yes. And if you have a medium-sized company where there are regular changes - sometimes weekly or fortnightly - those costs run up enormously. Entrepreneurs then cluster that to save costs, but it also takes a lot of time.

[45:38] Rules clash with practice
Marijke Vuik: So the problem is that you can fully meet all the requirements. There is someone with the diploma, everything is correct. But if the appendix to the licence has not been updated in time, then you are officially not compliant. And that can cause problems when checked. This is one such example that I often explain to politicians. Everyone understands the problem. But because several ministries are involved - Economic Affairs, Justice and Security and Public Health - it is still very difficult to simply abolish it. While the solution is actually quite logical: trust entrepreneurs and check through the existing register.

[46:00] Why rules are hard to disappear
Marijke Vuik: What you see in this - and I have really explained this many times - is that actually everyone understands that this rule is not logical. All political parties, everyone you explain it to, says: yes, this is actually not right. Only then you end up in a situation where several ministries are involved. Economic Affairs because of regulatory pressure. Justice and Security because of the preventive effect on undermining. And Public Health because of alcohol policy. And then you see that it becomes very complicated to just scrap such a rule.

Marijke Vuik: I think the bigger issue here is that you shouldn't look at that 0.01 per cent where things are going wrong. You have to look at the entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs just naturally want to do well. Give them space, give them confidence. Then you will see that the goal will still be achieved.

[46:40] Expectation that rules will disappear
Jerry Helmers: But is there hope that this will succeed within the current coalition period? Today, Jetten started. Let's assume for a moment that they will last four years.

Marijke Vuik: Yes, and faster too. There is already a motion from September calling on the minister to come up with a solution for this. And a few weeks ago there was also an advice from the ATR, which also says that the regulatory burden here is too great. So I assume that this will now be followed up and that this rule will be abolished soon.

[47:18] What does she want to be judged on as president
Jerry Helmers: At some point your term will also come to an end. What do you want to be judged on when you hand over the baton to your successor?

Marijke Vuik: I think the most important thing is how you put the hospitality industry on the map. And that starts with positivity. That same positivity and passion that entrepreneurs have. That it's also my job to show that to the rest of the Netherlands. How beautiful the industry is.

Jerry Helmers: Is that measurable?

Marijke Vuik: No, it's not really measurable. But you can have a feeling about it.

[48:00] Concrete results of lobbying work
Jerry Helmers: But feeling remains subjective.

Marijke Vuik: That's true. But lobbying is also a profession in which it is very difficult to always achieve very concrete results. The most important thing is that you are at the table and can discuss everything. And that you actually get things done on a number of dossiers.

Marijke Vuik: Like, for example, that side note to the day manager we were just talking about. Or rules around single-use plastics where adjustments have been made. These are examples where people do listen and where changes are possible. If we can achieve successes in a number of areas, I am extremely happy with that.

[49:00] Working with politics and lobbying in The Hague
Jerry Helmers: Don't you get tired of the Hague sometimes? Of playing the game? Of drinking coffee with your face in the crease while you might be thinking something else?

Marijke Vuik: No, no, no. You have to love politics. Of course, that's what comes with it. And I'm really convinced of that as well. And I also just go into this with positivity, also when it comes to a new coalition. But also if you look at MPs now. The MPs who are in it, just do it hear. Because of course you get quite a lot thrown at you. And a lot is asked of you. And when I see how much dossier knowledge they have and how much enthusiasm they put into their work since the new elections, and before that, for that matter, but also in the new group that has been formed, I really respect them.

Jerry Helmers: Okay, so also hope for the hoteliers.

Marijke Vuik: Definitely. There is definitely hope.

[50:10] World Cup football and hospitality opening hours
Jerry Helmers: One of the themes we will hopefully all be connected in the Netherlands again this year is the World Cup. The Dutch team is scheduled to play three matches at the World Cup. One of them is on 26 June and that match starts at one o'clock in the morning. Wouldn't it be nice if the hospitality industry could just stay open then so people can watch that match together?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, drama. But that's really municipal policy. So that lies with the municipalities. But we know there are already discussions going on between different municipalities. And every municipality reacts differently to that. But there are municipalities that have said they want to make an exception for when the Netherlands plays at night, so that the hospitality industry can stay open longer.

Jerry Helmers: But what is your organisation's call?

Marijke Vuik: Of course: allow this. Because how great is it? Otherwise everyone will sit at home. How great is it if you do get to watch that match just together in the hospitality industry.

[50:30] What does she want to be judged on as president
Jerry Helmers: But at some point there comes a time when your term is up and you have to hand over the baton. What do you want to be judged on?

Marijke Vuik: Well, I think the most important thing is how you put the hospitality industry on the map. And that really starts from positivity. And that same positivity and passion that entrepreneurs have, that it's also my job to show that to the rest of the Netherlands. About how beautiful the industry is. And that's really what it's all about.

Jerry Helmers: Is that measurable?

Marijke Vuik: No, that is never measurable.

Jerry Helmers: But look, then it's...

Marijke Vuik: It's a feeling, of course it is. Is it measurable? No. Can you have a feeling about it? Yes.

Jerry Helmers: But feeling remains subjective.

Marijke Vuik: That is so.

Jerry Helmers: So that's kind of easy anyway to say something like I want to be judged on that.

Marijke Vuik: What's nice is: lobbying is really great, but it's very difficult to really get very concrete results. And I think that's where being at the table is most important. That you have a say in everything. And that you can hopefully ensure that things like a registration for day care workers or other things from our regulatory pressure action plan that have been taken up, when it comes to single use plastic and the plastic levy for example, these are all things that have been taken up. And so we have a whole list of dossiers to which we are committed. And that is much broader than just regulatory pressure. So if we can just achieve some successes in a number of areas, I am extremely happy with that.

[51:15] Working with politics in The Hague
Jerry Helmers: Don't you get tired of the Hague sometimes? Of the game?

Jerry Helmers: Of that drinking coffee with your face in the crease while thinking maybe something else?

Marijke Vuik: No, no, no. You have to love politics. Of course, that's what comes with it. And I'm really convinced of that as well. And I also just go into this with positivity, also when it comes to a new coalition. But also if you look at MPs now. The MPs who are in it. Just do it hear. Because of course you get quite a lot thrown at you. And a lot is asked of you. And when I see how much dossier knowledge they have and how much enthusiasm they put into their work since the new elections and before that, for that matter, but also in the new group that has been formed, I really respect them.

Jerry Helmers: Okay. So also hope for the hoteliers.

Marijke Vuik: Definitely. There is definitely hope.

[52:10] World Cup football and hospitality opening hours
Jerry Helmers: One of the themes we will hopefully all be connected in the Netherlands again this year is the World Cup. In any case, the Dutch team is scheduled to play three matches at the World Cup. But one of those matches on 26 June is at one o'clock in the morning. That, of course, is quite a thing. Because normally the hospitality industry is not allowed to be open then. What would be your appeal to municipalities?

Marijke Vuik: Yes, drama. But that's really municipal policy. So that would then have to go to all municipalities. But we know there are already discussions going on between different municipalities. And every municipality reacts differently to this. But there are municipalities that have indeed said they want to make an exception when the Netherlands plays at night. That then the hospitality industry can stay open longer.

Jerry Helmers: But what is your organisation's call?

Marijke Vuik: The call? Of course allow this. Because how great it is. Otherwise everyone will sit at home. How great it is if you do get to watch that match just together in the hospitality industry.

[53:48] Concluding the conversation
Jerry Helmers: Marijke, thank you for letting me be here in Woerden at the headquarters of Koninklijke Horeca Nederland. I enjoyed the conversation.

Marijke Vuik: Thank you.

Jerry Helmers: Thanks for listening. Do you like this podcast and don't want to miss an episode? Then click on the plus sign to follow us.