[00:00–00:16] Introduction
Voice-over: Lightspeed Restaurant. The leading platform for the world’s top hospitality entrepreneurs.
Voice-over: Welcome to Hotelvak De Podcast, the podcast about running a business in the hospitality sector.
[00:17–02:17] Reception at the Mövenpick Hotel
Jerry Helmers: Today, we’re visiting the Mövenpick Hotel in Amsterdam-Centrum with our mobile podcast studio. Sitting opposite me, at the other microphone, is Remco Groenhuijzen, the hotel’s General Manager. It’s lovely to be here, Remco.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Welcome, welcome to the hotel.
Jerry Helmers: When I was unloading my car a little while ago, you could really feel the tourist vibe straight away. That’s when I thought: what a lovely place this would be to work, coming here every day. Is that right, Remco?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely, yes. The nice bonus about this hotel in Amsterdam is that, whilst Amsterdam is of course already a vibrant city, we’re also right by the harbour. Today there’s a huge ship moored there – the Celebrity.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, I saw him lying there.
Remco Groenhuijzen: There are always huge crowds. There’s just so much going on. You mentioned a holiday atmosphere just now – that’s what a holiday’s all about.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that’s how it felt. The weather was lovely when I got out of the car too, so I thought: I’m really looking forward to it.
Remco Groenhuijzen: As you saw just now, when we were walking through the hotel, we’re currently hosting a conference with around 120 guests who are here all day to share their knowledge. We’re always a bit of a mixed bunch, and that’s what I love about this hotel. Because it’s quite a large hotel, we can actually cater for all kinds of guests visiting Amsterdam.
Jerry Helmers: I already had that impression when I arrived here, and just now as I walked with you through the corridors to this lovely room, where we’ve set up our studio. In case I’ve forgotten: thank you very much indeed for the warm welcome here. Remco, what are we going to promise our listeners? We’re going to do a profile interview. We’d like our listeners to get to know you better. Are you going to reveal anything about yourself in today’s podcast?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I think it’s interesting for everyone to hear about someone’s journey and whether people can learn from it.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, exactly.
[02:18–04:12] Views on work and leadership
Jerry Helmers: Shall we agree that, at the end, we might be able to give the listeners two or three tips? For people who want a career as brilliant as yours. Whether that career is brilliant or not, you’ll have to tell us yourself later. Shall we agree that at the end of the podcast we’ll see if we can offer any tips or suggestions? We’d like to know more about you: where are you from, who are you and what’s your background? Before we do that, I’d like to put a few statements to you. That all sounds rather serious.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Very good.
Jerry Helmers: It might be a bit of a challenge, actually, because you can only answer ‘agree’ or ‘disagree’. I’ll be taking notes along with you, of course, as there might be a reason to come back to this later in the podcast. Are you ready for the statements?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes, of course.
Jerry Helmers: You’re not on a TV talk show – it’s just a podcast. Of all the things I’ve thought of this week, I simply have to ask this one. The first proposition: if my wife were to say, “That’s enough now, Remco, with all these irregular working hours”, I’d seriously consider leaving the hotel industry.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I disagree.
Jerry Helmers: I don’t know if your wife is listening, but we’ll ask her that next time I bump into her. One more thing: in the hotel business, you sometimes have to look after your guests better than you look after yourself.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I agree.
Jerry Helmers: I’d rather be a warm leader who sometimes gets a bit too involved than a distant leader who has everything perfectly under control.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I agree.
Jerry Helmers: An angry bloke can still ruin my day, even if I pretend he hasn’t.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I couldn’t agree more.
Jerry Helmers: In this line of work, you need to be able to act a bit, but above all, you need to stay true to yourself. Do you agree or disagree?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely.
Jerry Helmers: I certainly agree. That’s fine. I’ve jotted a few things down here and I’d like to come back to one of them later.
[04:13–07:42] Young people in Amsterdam-Noord and the ship’s cook training course
Jerry Helmers: Remco, who are you and where are you from? I can detect a bit of an Amsterdam accent in the way you speak. Tell me: where are you from? Where were you as a little boy, back when you probably hadn’t even considered a career in the hotel industry?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I’m from Amsterdam-Noord. You can still hear it in my accent. I grew up there. My parents are also from Amsterdam, and my father was working at Stork in Amsterdam at the time.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that’s a well-known company.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I went to school there too. When I was twelve, you naturally had to choose a course of study. I opted for the ship’s cook training programme. That was partly because, at the time, there were two streams: HAVO and MAVO. My mum really wanted me to learn a trade. Cooking did appeal to me, so that seemed like a good option.
Jerry Helmers: Did you used to potter about in the kitchen a bit when you were a young boy? Did your mum let you in there? Were you allowed to experiment?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That’s true. My mum loved cooking, but we’re talking about a completely different era.
Jerry Helmers: Foreign food?
Remco Groenhuijzen: My mum enjoyed cooking, and it held a certain appeal for me. I still find it strange that you have to decide what you want to do at the age of twelve. That’s still the case, especially if you want to choose a trade. I went to the Algemeen Consumptieve Opleiding in Amsterdam-Noord. It was also known as the ship’s cook training course. There, you also learnt butchery, pastry-making and bread-baking. That was basically the foundation. I was sixteen when I finished.
Jerry Helmers: You’re making great progress. Was that course easy? Did you pass it first time? Were you the sort of lad who always did exactly what the teacher said, or were you a bit of a rebel? Surely a chef needs to dare to experiment a bit with his own dishes?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We really learnt the basics there. I’m a bit of a go-getter, so I just wanted to be top of the class.
Jerry Helmers: Did it work out?
Remco Groenhuijzen: It worked out all right. Back then, you had a choice of where to go. People would also say: “Why are you doing that? Maybe you should do the mavo”, and things like that. I did that course anyway and actually found it very easy.
Jerry Helmers: What other subjects did you study? You learnt to cook there, of course, but did you also have subjects like English and maths?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We had English and German, of course. In the first year, we had general maths, and after that we studied subject-specific theory, such as product knowledge, drinks knowledge and kitchen theory.
Jerry Helmers: And all that when you were just twelve or thirteen? Learning everything there is to know about drink?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes. We had quite a lot of subjects, and statistics was one of them. It was a fairly broad degree programme.
[07:43–10:01] From the culinary trade to secondary hotel school
Jerry Helmers: Did you have any doubts back then about whether or not to go into the culinary profession?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That had more to do with my age. I did have my doubts. I had a serving instructor who said, “You should go into the catering trade.”
Jerry Helmers: A serving instructor?
Remco Groenhuijzen: A catering instructor. Back then, the subject was still called ‘serving’.
Jerry Helmers: I thought you said ‘atmosphere teacher’.
Remco Groenhuijzen: No. That might well have been an option. Of course, we also had a cookery teacher. He said: “You should go into the culinary profession, because you’ve got talent.” Anyway, I was sixteen when I finished that course. A few friends from school went to sea, because they were eighteen.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, right.
Remco Groenhuijzen: You had to be eighteen to go to sea. Then the cookery teacher said: “Why don’t you just go to the hotel management college? It’s just opened in Amsterdam.” The school had only been open for a year at the time. He said: “After that, you can always make a decision, and you’ll have that qualification under your belt.”
Jerry Helmers: What did your parents think of that? You said your father worked at Stork. What did your mother do for a living?
Remco Groenhuijzen: She was a housewife.
Jerry Helmers: So, given their own background, they knew nothing about the hospitality industry. Their son had completed a chef’s training course and then wanted to go to a secondary hotel school. What did they think of that?
Remco Groenhuijzen: They were fine with that, as long as I finished the course. It was quite expensive back then. My father said, in his Amsterdam accent: “Right, you’re going to see it through.” My sister had dropped out of a course after a year, so my father said: “You’re not going to pull that stunt on me again.”
Jerry Helmers: He’s not wrong. Although, if your older sister was allowed to drop out of her course once, surely you’re allowed to make that mistake once too?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I just wanted to do well myself. I went to De Kogge and was introduced to other areas of the industry there. That’s what led me to change my mind and decide to work as a chef afterwards. I did a work placement, and I think it’s really important to do a work placement at a hotel management school. I also worked at the weekends.
[10:02–15:51] First job in the hospitality industry and interacting with guests
Jerry Helmers: Did you have a part-time job in the hospitality industry or just a paper round, to earn a few euros – or guilders, as they were called back then?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We were still using guilders, yes. I used to work at Crêperie Pan Pan. It was part of Albert’s Corner.
Jerry Helmers: Was that about the old roadside restaurants?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes, but this was a rather unusual concept in the city. It was on Kalverstraat. I worked there as a waiting staff member and really enjoyed it.
Jerry Helmers: So that’s when you realised you enjoyed serving and interacting with guests. Even as a fifteen-, sixteen- or seventeen-year-old, did you already feel that it was nice to give people an enjoyable afternoon or evening?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I had a goal in mind. Firstly, I enjoyed the job because you look after people and make them feel at home. Secondly, I found organising it a challenge. That might sound strange, but when you’re responsible for a neighbourhood, you have to make sure everyone is well looked after and served on time.
Jerry Helmers: By ‘neighbourhood’, do you mean a few tables?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Exactly. The restaurant was very long, and the worst neighbourhood was at the back. You had to start at the back and then work your way up. We didn’t have pedometers back then, but in the end I ended up at the front because I simply did best in that neighbourhood.
Jerry Helmers: What does it take to run a neighbourhood successfully? Are you talking about turnover or happy guests?
Remco Groenhuijzen: You make sure everyone is served quickly and on time. When someone leaves, you clear the table quickly so that you can seat new guests.
Jerry Helmers: That’s more the economic side of things.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Ultimately, tips are, of course, important for a waiter too.
Jerry Helmers: Were you motivated by tips?
Remco Groenhuijzen: If you do a good job, you’ll get a tip automatically.
Jerry Helmers: Name a figure. How much did you take home after a night’s work if you’d done a good job in your area?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That was, of course, back in the days of the guilder.
Jerry Helmers: Then we’ll convert it to today’s standards.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I can’t really remember. I do know that we always went for a beer afterwards.
Jerry Helmers: It was all over before I knew it. So there isn’t much left of it. But how do you know if you’re doing it right? You say you did well with the tables in your neighbourhood. Is that something you can learn at a secondary hotel school, or does it have to come naturally?
Remco Groenhuijzen: It’s something you’ve got to have in you. You need the drive to welcome guests and make sure they have a good time. I think it’s a combination of skills. You need to be able to connect with your guests quickly and effectively. That’s still very important. I sometimes say that it would be good for everyone to work in the hospitality industry for a while. You come into contact with lots of people, including those you might not normally interact with so easily, and difficult guests. What is a difficult guest? Someone who thinks they know better? How do you deal with that?
Jerry Helmers: That also says something about your character. You try to do your job as well as you can, especially as a sixteen-, seventeen- or eighteen-year-old lad. Whether it’s a part-time job or an internship, at the end of the day you’re still a person with certain limits on how you want to be treated by someone.
Remco Groenhuijzen: You need to be open to interacting with people. I’m not necessarily saying you have to be particularly sociable, but you do need to be able to connect easily with guests and strike up a conversation quickly. You also need to take an interest in guests. If you’re interested in people, open to connecting with them and don’t have any preconceptions, you can learn so much. I’ve come across people about whom you’d initially think: “Oh, well, you know… [unintelligible]”. That goes for complaints too. People say: ‘The guest is angry.’ Then you step in and have to sort it out. I’ve had guests who’ve gone on to become regulars because you’ve made a good connection with them. That skill is really important.
Jerry Helmers: Is that also why you say that everyone should have had a job in the hospitality industry? So that we might communicate better with one another in this society?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That might be a bit of a stretch, but it does make it easier to communicate with people. Whether it’s about friends or building a network, it’s important to connect with someone quickly.
Jerry Helmers: Are we getting on well? We’ve known each other for just under an hour now. You’ve shown me round the corridors very politely. What was your first impression of me? Can you size me up?
Remco Groenhuijzen: You come in and I see you. I ask, “Have you been here before?” Then you ask questions. That’s important.
Jerry Helmers: Are you interested?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes, showing an interest. When you sit down at a table, there are two things you can do. You can say: “What would you like to drink?” Or you can ask: “I see you’re in Amsterdam. Are you out shopping, or what brings you here?” That way, you start communicating with each other in a different way.
Jerry Helmers: Exactly.
[15:52–19:48] Work placements, warehouse management and the night shift
Jerry Helmers: At some point, you finished secondary hotel school. Then came the next step.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Doing an internship was really important, because it gives you a real taste of the job. A part-time job is fine – I’d already been doing that. Later on, I worked at the Marriott in the café. In my third year, I did an internship. That was back when you weren’t allowed to go to Uzbekistan, China or anywhere else. You had to stay in the Netherlands. I did my internship at the American Hotel and the Amstel Hotel, and I also started working in the kitchen there. At one point, the storekeeper went on holiday for six weeks. I don’t remember the story exactly, but I think he had a lot of overtime left. Then they asked: “Would you like to run the storeroom?” At first I thought: what on earth is that? I learnt a lot there. I had to order everything, handle the purchasing and carry out the stock-taking. I got to know the inner workings of the business. You learn that in theory on the course, but there I saw it in practice too.
Jerry Helmers: So you were given quite a lot of responsibility straight away. That was part of your work placement. That’s a good work placement, isn’t it?
Remco Groenhuijzen: There was a manager above me who helped me and from whom I could learn. But Remco was, of course, a bit of a go-getter.
Jerry Helmers: Was that when you realised you were good at this job, or that you understood it?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I suppose what I realised most of all was that I no longer wanted to work in the kitchen and that I wanted to take on different roles. I decided for myself that I wanted to move into F&B management and become a manager. That’s how you sort of work out what your next step should be.
Jerry Helmers: What was that next step?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I was still in my fourth year of my degree course. I was still working at the Marriott in Amsterdam, in the bar and in the café. Those were very different times.
Jerry Helmers: Are we talking about the early 1980s?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes. Youth unemployment in Amsterdam was 25 to 30 per cent back then. Young people these days tend to forget that. To get a job, you really had to give it your all and be selected. If you sent a letter of application, there’d be 150 others doing the same. I wanted to stay at the Marriott. I was still working in the bar at the time and was allowed to do a few hours’ cocktail shift. Anyway, I had a job, so that was nice. At one point, the night auditor post became vacant. We were told that if you’d done that training, you’d have to take on a number of roles. Back then, that meant being a night auditor or a steward, to learn more behind the scenes. I started working the night shift and did night shifts for a year and a half. I learnt a great deal there. It was still the era before computers. Nowadays, you just press a button and run the night audit. Back then, you actually had to enter the charges for 400 rooms manually. If someone’s room rate was 200 guilders, we’d enter that. We did it invoice by invoice.
Jerry Helmers: So it wasn’t a quiet night shift.
Remco Groenhuijzen: No. We had to run a trial balance. If the figures didn’t balance, you had to start looking for the mistake, because that meant the system had made an error somewhere. That was quite fun.
Jerry Helmers: It was a real learning experience.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely. Marriott was a wonderful company and it’s still a lovely hotel. The organisation was very well-run. After that, I moved to Sonesta, which is now the Renaissance. I’d, of course, worked at the Amstel Hotel, which was very classic French in style. Marriott and Sonesta were the new, American-style companies. It was interesting to gain experience there.
[19:49–23:23] US hotel chains and irregular working hours
Jerry Helmers: I think people in America have a very different view of service in the hospitality industry. If you’re a Dutch person on holiday or travelling in the United States and you’re sitting in a restaurant there, it’s a completely different experience.
Remco Groenhuijzen: From a cultural point of view, yes.
Jerry Helmers: What do you mean by ‘educated in the US’?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We were in Amsterdam, mind you. I didn’t notice that much difference in the service. It was mainly the organisation behind it that was different.
Jerry Helmers: You still had irregular working hours.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I then went to work at Sonesta. I did housekeeping there during the day, but I also worked evening shifts. I was responsible for cleaning the hotel, apart from the rooms. Everything else was part of my role. It was a 400-room hotel, so quite a large one. After that, I moved to the restaurant as restaurant supervisor. It was called the Serre Restaurant at the time – the all-day dining venue. That’s when I’d made it.
Jerry Helmers: You say you’d made it. You were 23, a young lad. I reckon you’re just over two metres tall now, and you must have been about the same back then. You must have been incredibly attractive – the sort of bloke who could easily have met a lovely girlfriend. But how could you have met her if you were always working?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I’d already met him at hotel school.
Jerry Helmers: O.
Remco Groenhuijzen: My wife went to hotel school too, but it wasn’t for her.
Jerry Helmers: Are you still with the same girlfriend?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Now your wife.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Next year, you’ll have been together for forty years. So it was doubly nice that you also met your life partner at hotel management college. Didn’t she mind that her boyfriend was working such irregular shifts? She was probably in the same line of work herself.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Not in the end. When she was at hotel school, she realised it wasn’t for her. I did say: “I realise I want to work in the hospitality industry and that shift work is part of that.” That’s actually always worked out fine. We’re still married.
Jerry Helmers: So there was no objection to that. Next year you’ll be celebrating your fortieth anniversary. That makes me look back at the points we made at the start. The first was: if my wife were to say, “I’ve had enough of all these irregular working hours”, I would seriously consider leaving the hotel industry. You disagreed. Why?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I think you need to sort that out together. Perhaps one big difference is that we don’t have children. If you have children, you both have to look after them. I now see with many staff members who have children just how difficult it can be to combine that with shift work. Anyway, I was driven to build a career. That involved shift work and often long days. After that, I went to Sint Maarten. There, I worked six days a week. The restaurant opened at midday and closed at midnight. You made sure you were there by ten o’clock in the morning and came home at one or two o’clock in the morning.
[23:24–28:45] Six years working on Sint Maarten
Jerry Helmers: How did you end up on Sint Maarten?
Remco Groenhuijzen: By plane. No, that’s quite a funny story. I was a restaurant manager at the age of 23 and wanted to see what my next step might be. We had an F&B manager I was in touch with. He knew someone on Sint Maarten who ran a restaurant and a bar. He said: “Perhaps you should gain some experience abroad. I think that would be good for you. I can give him a ring to see if you could work there. I reckon he’s looking for someone.” It was a very different time. There was no FaceTime or anything like that. I had a phone call and sent a letter. Eventually, I was invited to come over. I actually had no idea what to expect, but I just got on a plane and flew over there. That’s when I started working there.
Jerry Helmers: Did your girlfriend come along?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We’d arranged it so that I’d go first. Remco does like a bit of security sometimes. We lived in Amsterdam, on Wittenburg, and had a flat there. I was going to see how things went within six weeks. If it turned out to be a complete failure, I’d come back. We had that flat and would otherwise have had to give notice. We thought that was a risk. I was 24, so you do want to build in some certainty.
Jerry Helmers: In the end, your girlfriend had to give up her job or career in the Netherlands too. Surely that’s quite a difficult conversation to have?
Remco Groenhuijzen: She worked at Stork, where my father-in-law also worked. Stork was a large company. She said, “I’m happy to come along. I’m sure I’ll find another job there.” And that’s exactly what she did. We had a wonderful time on Sint Maarten.
Jerry Helmers: How long were you there?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Almost six years.
Jerry Helmers: What was the most important lesson you learnt from Sint Maarten? It is, after all, a different culture.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely. Sint Maarten has a French part and a Dutch part. That’s what gives the island its charm. It’s a holiday island. I used to work at a restaurant at the airport. We had a restaurant in town, a bar and a bar behind customs. We ran those. We had loads of American visitors, so I really got to know American culture. For example: in America, when people have finished eating, you clear their plate and ask if they enjoyed their meal, even whilst the other person is still eating. That was simply not done in the Netherlands.
Jerry Helmers: I think that’s still the case.
Remco Groenhuijzen: In the Netherlands, if you put the bill on the table, people think: ‘You want me to leave.’ In America, they see it as part of the service. Even though I’d worked at Marriott and Sonesta, the service we provided there was still very European. I came across all sorts of differences like that on Sint Maarten. I found it interesting to see. You also work with the local population, who have a very different outlook on life.
Jerry Helmers: Was that just interesting, or was it also tiring and stressful?
Remco Groenhuijzen: When you’re young, you find your way through it all. It all comes down to this: how open are you to people and how do you get on with them? At the end of the day, I’d go for a beer with the lads or we’d go out somewhere. It was always good fun. You shouldn’t judge people for how they live their lives and do things. You can have an opinion about it.
Jerry Helmers: But you have to be open to the idea. At some point, you came back to the Netherlands.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I’d told myself I’d go to Sint Maarten for two years. It was during the Gulf War, in the early nineties, and it was very difficult to get into America. A friend of mine was there. I also looked into getting a green card, but that was impossible. Applying for jobs from the island was very difficult. You had to send a letter. By the time that letter arrived, the post had already been filled. At one point I said: “Right, we’ll take on someone else for the restaurant.” I trained that person for half a year. After that, I packed my things and went back to the Netherlands. We said: “We’ll see what happens here.” I was quite keen to go abroad, but it was difficult to just end up abroad like that. You actually had to be sent out by a company. That’s when I started as an assistant manager at Van der Valk. I just wanted a job and wanted to get my foot in the door. It was a great learning experience.
Jerry Helmers: Was that at Utrecht?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes.
[28:46–33:23] Careers at Van der Valk and Accor
Jerry Helmers: Did you then go on to build a career at Van der Valk? You eventually ended up here at Mövenpick. Am I jumping to conclusions now?
Remco Groenhuijzen: No. If you wanted to get ahead at Van der Valk, you had to marry someone from Van der Valk. I was already married, so that was going to be tricky.
Jerry Helmers: So that came to an end.
Remco Groenhuijzen: It was a mixed bag. I was assistant manager. Mr and Mrs Van der Valk – Klaas van der Valk – were there. The hotel in Breukelen was their hotel. It was a very hands-on role. On the one hand, I really learnt a lot there. One Sunday, we served 900 guests à la carte. It just went on and on.
Jerry Helmers: Did you enjoy the operational side of things? Despite being relatively young, you’d gained a lot of relevant experience in various organisations and had worked in Sint Maarten. You came back with an incredible wealth of experience, including in working with other cultures. Yet you went back to work in an operational role at Van der Valk. Didn’t you think it was time to move into a strategic position?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That was one of the two reasons why, at a certain point, I wanted to look elsewhere. At Van der Valk, it was very hands-on, because Mr Van der Valk actually organised everything behind the scenes. We’d turn up, have a team, and run the shift with them. On Sint Maarten, I also handled procurement, paid the staff and took care of all sorts of other matters. I wanted to return to a management role at a different level. The second reason was that I wanted to go abroad. I thought: I need to join an international chain so that I can be posted abroad from there. That’s how I started at Novotel, part of Accor. The funny thing is that this was thirty years ago and I’m still based in Amsterdam. So that plan didn’t quite work out.
Jerry Helmers: There is definitely an international feel to this place. It all started with the cruise ships docking here. Right outside the Mövenpick Hotel, you can see all those wheeled suitcases arriving. So you’re definitely in an international setting. Is it still a disappointment that the venture abroad didn’t work out?
Remco Groenhuijzen: No. I’ve been with Accor for thirty years, but I’ve moved up the ranks every two, three or five years and done a great many different things. I’ve learnt a lot from that. At one point, I was also given the chance to go abroad and had some interviews. Then another opportunity came up in Amsterdam. That was just before I joined The Grand. I was asked: “Do you want to take on The Grand?” So you have to make a choice. When considering the career moves I could make, I often looked at the product and what else I could learn there.
Jerry Helmers: For you, is a job primarily something that allows you to learn as a person?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely. When I started at Novotel, I was a restaurant and conference manager. After that, I was able to become an operations manager. That was a great step for me. I’d been very much involved in food and beverage, including during my time at Van der Valk, and that brought me into closer contact with the whole accommodation side of things. My next role was as director for the opening of the ibis Amsterdam Stopera. That involved opening a 200-room hotel right in the heart of Amsterdam.
Jerry Helmers: Wow.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I was a director and really enjoyed the role. I then moved to ibis Amsterdam Airport.
Jerry Helmers: In Badhoevedorp, near Schiphol-Noord.
Remco Groenhuijzen: With 600 rooms. We then opened the Etap Hotel on the site. That was another challenge. I subsequently became regional director. I managed fifteen Accor hotels in the economy sector in the Netherlands. That was a really great step. After that, I returned to Novotel as director. A refurbishment was due to take place. The building had been sold and a major investment was to be made. It was wonderful to be able to refurbish a hotel like that. Around 27 million euros was invested. That was a major project.
Jerry Helmers: So you’re prepared to take on that sort of responsibility?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Certainly.
[33:24–38:35] Emergencies, responsibility and leadership
Jerry Helmers: Is that scary?
Remco Groenhuijzen: No.
Jerry Helmers: Does it ever keep you awake at night?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I have a strong sense of responsibility. Perhaps I sometimes worry too much about things or take on too much responsibility.
Jerry Helmers: Surely that’s exactly the sort of thing that could keep you awake at night?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That does happen from time to time.
Jerry Helmers: So what are you worrying about?
Remco Groenhuijzen: It varies. What could I do better? What do I need to sort out? Especially when there are incidents, it keeps going round and round in my head. I’m often thinking about things.
Jerry Helmers: Can you think of an example of an incident from your time in the hotel industry that you’d say: ‘I’ll never forget that’? Perhaps it was even a turning point.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I don’t know if it was a turning point. During the refurbishment of the Novotel, for example, we had an asbestos contamination incident. We had to evacuate the hotel. That was the sort of moment that makes it hard to get to sleep at night.
Jerry Helmers: Will the true leader then emerge?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I think so. The team is watching you. What are you doing? What’s happening? How are you handling it? You have the important role of keeping a cool head and taking the steps that are expected of you. People are watching to see how you handle it.
Jerry Helmers: Right from the start, our guiding principle was: I’d rather be a warm leader who sometimes gets a bit too involved than a distant leader who has everything perfectly under control. You mention an asbestos contamination. That’s quite something.
Remco Groenhuijzen: They were carrying out asbestos removal work and something went wrong, resulting in the public areas being contaminated.
Jerry Helmers: Then you have to take action and be firm. If only for the sake of everyone’s health in the neighbourhood. Can you still be a warm leader in that situation?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Not at a time like that. That applies not only here, but in other situations as well. We’ve also had a fire once. At a time like that, you’re mainly expected to make decisions and react quickly.
Jerry Helmers: Where was that fire?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Also at the Novotel, just after the refurbishment.
Jerry Helmers: What happened? A fire is a fire, but how did it start?
Remco Groenhuijzen: It just goes to show that accidents can happen in the blink of an eye. It was to do with an extractor fan for which they’d devised a temporary fix. As a result, grease built up in the extractor fan. The flame shot up from the pan and then spread to the ceiling. That’s when the fire broke out.
Jerry Helmers: Were you there at the time, or did you get a call in the middle of the night?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I was out. I saw that someone was calling, but thought: I’ll ring him back later. I ignored the call. He rang again and I dismissed the call once more. But he rang four times, so I thought: I’d better answer it after all. With a trembling voice, he said: “The hotel’s on fire.”
Jerry Helmers: Oh my God.
Remco Groenhuijzen: It really takes the wind out of your sails. I thought: what on earth am I going to find there? You arrive and there’s the press, the fire brigade – and everyone’s staring at you.
Jerry Helmers: Do you consciously realise that at such a moment, or are you in the zone, focusing step by step on coming up with a solution?
Remco Groenhuijzen: You weigh things up very quickly. Thinking, adapting. I’m not quite sure how to explain it.
Jerry Helmers: Why do you never forget this?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Because you get a phone call and you don’t yet know how it’s all going to turn out. We’d just finished renovating everything. It was, of course, a real shame that this happened.
Jerry Helmers: Do you ever feel that you might be responsible for a mistake you’ve made?
Remco Groenhuijzen: My top priority was safety. You make sure everyone is safe. That’s your first concern. I never really felt it was my fault.
Jerry Helmers: Could that doubt strike later on?
Remco Groenhuijzen: That’s something for later. Then you analyse what happened and whether you could have prevented it.
Jerry Helmers: Was this the moment when you realised you were a good leader, or when you discovered what leadership in the hospitality industry should be?
[38:36–41:27] Taking up the post as the new hotel manager
Remco Groenhuijzen: I think I’ve always done my own thing. Of course, you’re aware of your role. When you walk into a new hotel, you’re very conscious of the question: how do I go about this and how do I get started? I have a specific approach for that. When I moved from Novotel, where I’d been for six years, to The Grand, I was stepping into a different kind of hotel. I gave careful thought to how I should go about it. Similarly, when I moved from The Grand to Mövenpick, I was very conscious of my role. A new managing director is taking over, and that’s always exciting.
Jerry Helmers: Do you have to prove yourself?
Remco Groenhuijzen: You can sense that for yourself. You want to ensure a smooth transition. There’s a hotel operation already up and running. There’s room for improvement, but I’m not the sort of person who walks in and says: “We’re going to improve this, change that, and all of this is worse.” First, you see what’s going on and talk to the staff. It might sound like a cliché, but for the first hundred days, you just observe what’s there.
Jerry Helmers: Is your door always open?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Sometimes managers are taken aback when people actually walk through that door.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I don’t find that particularly difficult. You establish your position and then work with your team to build something. Trust is very important, as is projecting a sense of calm. If there’s an emergency or something else happens, you need to communicate clearly about it. People need to feel that there’s openness and that nothing is being hidden. Things like that are important for a team.
Jerry Helmers: Did you learn that at hotel school, or is it a case of learning by doing?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Of course, you change as a manager. When I first opened a hotel – the ibis Amsterdam Stopera – it was different. You start with a very small team and build it up. Everyone is looking to you. Situations vary, but experience is very important.
Jerry Helmers: So it’s not something you learn at hotel school.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Exactly.
[41:28–46:40] Advocacy and networking
Jerry Helmers: I’d like to talk to you about something else as we’re drawing to a close. You’re in your early sixties, if I may say so?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes, of course.
Jerry Helmers: A young, fit man in his sixties. You’re also committed to advocacy within the City of Amsterdam. Is that a way of demonstrating leadership and serving the sector as a whole?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Something I personally find very important – and you were just asking for tips – is the Circle of Influence. I think I’ve got to where I am today because I’ve always gone the extra mile. If there was an F&B working group and people asked, “Would you like to be involved?”, I’d take it on. When I was at Novotel, I was a member of the Association of Food & Beverage Management. They were looking for someone to join the board, so I joined the board.
Jerry Helmers: What are you doing now to promote Amsterdam’s interests?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I am the chair of Luxury Hotels of Amsterdam. This role has become increasingly essential in recent years.
Jerry Helmers: You mean because of the capital’s anti-tourism policy?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes. People tend to think of the tourist tax as a sort of cash cow that can be used to fund all sorts of nice things. A few years ago, we started explaining to political parties just how important the visitor economy is for Amsterdam. I believe we should be committed to that. I’ve also been a board member of the Red Cross, for example. It’s also very important to do something outside the hospitality sector.
Jerry Helmers: Life isn’t all about the hospitality industry.
Remco Groenhuijzen: No. I’m currently on the board of a theatre in the town where we live. There, you learn different things and come into contact with other sectors.
Jerry Helmers: That actually gives you the first tip we promised at the start of the podcast. For people who want a great career in the hospitality industry: get involved in things outside of work as well. Get involved in advocacy work or join a board. You’ll gain experience, learn new things, and there’s always something to take away from it.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I also try to tell young people: make sure you build a network. These days, you just send someone a connection request on LinkedIn and you’re connected.
Jerry Helmers: Then we’ll be friends for life.
Remco Groenhuijzen: To give an example: I got in touch with other people through the Association of Food & Beverage Management. When I wanted to buy a till system, I was able to ring up and ask who already had that system.
Jerry Helmers: Exactly.
Remco Groenhuijzen: So you got in touch with those people. Some of them eventually became friends with me.
Jerry Helmers: So how do young people go about it? They do it via LinkedIn these days. You’re connected and can become friends with a single click. How exactly do you build a network?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Join an association like that, but make sure you actively attend its meetings. In Amsterdam, for example, Koninklijke Horeca Nederland organises meetings with hotels. I almost always see the same faces there. If you’re a new hotel manager in Amsterdam, go along to one of those meetings. You’ll get to know other people there. They’re not just competitors, but colleagues too. Together, you’re trying to promote Amsterdam.
Jerry Helmers: Even if they’re competitors, that’s not a dirty word, is it? It doesn’t mean you can’t work together in other areas.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely. When I was at The Grand, the first step in the US was to promote Amsterdam. After that, it’s up to the guests to choose which hotel they want to stay at. You have to invest in building a network.
Jerry Helmers: That’s right.
Remco Groenhuijzen: When I’m on a board, as I was last night with the Friends of the OLVG, it’s in the evening. You have to set aside time for that. Which perhaps brings us back to my wife.
Jerry Helmers: You’ve already brought it up yourself. Did you have your wife’s permission?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I didn’t ask for permission.
Jerry Helmers: Whether you’d be allowed to sit on a board like that. So the first tip is: do something extra outside of work to learn from the experience. The second tip: try to build up a good network. Actually go along to clubs and interest groups and attend meetings to get to know people.
[46:41–50:23] Leading by example and seizing opportunities
Jerry Helmers: Do you have a third tip?
Remco Groenhuijzen: From a managerial point of view, I always say: leading by example. Why do I think that’s important? You just asked how people see you as a leader. That starts with how you carry yourself and what you do when you walk into a hotel. I walk around a lot. When I arrive in the morning, the first thing I do is check how breakfast is going. That actually gives me a feel for what’s happening in the hotel. I also chat to staff. It all starts with questions like: where do I park my car? Do I use the staff entrance? Do I eat in the canteen?
Jerry Helmers: What do you mean by that? Do you use the staff entrance yourself?
Remco Groenhuijzen: We have a number of house rules. If, as a director, you flout those rules yourself, people will quickly see right through it. Everyone understands that, as a director, you have certain privileges. In the past, a night-cap was quite common and people used to drink a lot. Nowadays, there are many rules surrounding alcohol consumption and abuse, so we no longer do that. That means that, as a director, I don’t sit down for a long drink with my management team. That sets the wrong example. Leading by example also means paying attention to how you dress. I ask the people here to wear a uniform and, for example, to wear a tie. People are very good at sensing when you don’t practise what you preach.
Jerry Helmers: That’s right. We’ve come to the end of this podcast. Have we got to know you a bit better? Have you really opened up, or is there one last thing you’d like to reveal? These might be a bit of a silly set of questions, but is there anything I absolutely should have asked, something you’d say: ‘This is what the listener needs to know about me’?
Remco Groenhuijzen: I always say: you’ll have to ask other people that. What I like to see when people talk about my career is that I’ve had so many opportunities within Accor. An important aspect is that you have to be given those opportunities. When I was 23, I was the restaurant manager at the Sonesta. There was a reunion recently. When I see 23-year-olds now, I think: I was a bit of a cheeky young thing myself. I sometimes think about the people who gave me opportunities. You also need a bit of luck and to be in the right place at the right time.
Jerry Helmers: Surely that’s down to your network as well?
Remco Groenhuijzen: Yes, and by putting yourself out there and showing what you’re made of. That’s important. It doesn’t all just fall into your lap. You have to show commitment and put in those extra hours. It might sound a bit trite to say that putting in extra hours gets you further, but that’s what we’ve seen.
Jerry Helmers: If you don’t invest in yourself, it becomes very difficult to achieve things for yourself, your career and your passion.
Remco Groenhuijzen: I see.
Jerry Helmers: That’s lovely, Remco. I hope you’ll look back on our conversation with fondness.
Remco Groenhuijzen: Absolutely.
[50:24] Closing remarks
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