15: Interview with Marlijn van der Valk: ‘Ultimately, hospitality is all about people’

[00:00] Introduction
Voice-over: Lightspeed Restaurant. The leading platform for the world’s top hospitality entrepreneurs.
Jerry Helmers: Welcome to Hotelvak, the podcast. The podcast about entrepreneurship in the hospitality sector. Today we’re guests at the Van der Valk Hotel in Amersfoort, just off the A1. And here today, in the stunning Skybar, we’re meeting Marlijn van der Valk, the general manager. Marlijn, what made you decide to say yes when we asked you?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I have to do this. It was one of those bucket list things.
Jerry Helmers: A podcast. Yeah, wow. So Hotelvak’s now ticked off the list. But why was this a bucket list item?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, there are so many great podcasts out there these days, and you listen to quite a few of them in the car as well. And here at Van der Valk we’re also quite involved in storytelling, so this fits in perfectly with that. We’ve actually got quite a nice story to tell, so that’s why.

[01:13] Growing up in a hotel
Jerry Helmers: What is the essence of the lovely story you, as a family, want to tell?
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, I think it’s certainly nice to be able to say that you’ve lived in a hotel since you were born and have a whole story to tell about it. I lived at Hotel Tiel until I was sixteen, upstairs in the hotel, just in our own home, just as everyone else has a home. So it wasn’t room service every day, nor did I have a different room every day. And I think it’s just really nice to be able to share a different way of growing up, or to give a glimpse into how things were in our family.
Jerry Helmers: Right, let’s start with your birth. You were born at some point, and you say you grew up in Tiel. What were you like as a young girl? Because I can’t help but think: if you lived in a hotel and went to school every day, you must have been quite the character to all your friends.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, it used to be a bit less fun than it is now, because you’re one of the Van der Valks and you get teased.
Jerry Helmers: Really?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, or at least, I was really bullied. I can’t say we had any bullies, but you do get labelled in a certain way, although you do eventually shake that off.
Jerry Helmers: But what was that stamp, then?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, a rich kid.
Jerry Helmers: But aren’t you all a bit like that too?
Marlijn van der Valk: We work hard too.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, exactly. But how did that bullying manifest itself at school?
Marlijn van der Valk: Primary school, up to Year 8. After that, it still happens to some extent, but you become a bit more rebellious, so it’s better to keep your mouth shut and you learn to stand up for yourself a bit more. And then you’re more ‘one of the girls’.
Jerry Helmers: But what did the children say to you, or how did that manifest itself in terms of bullying?
Marlijn van der Valk: That was such a long time ago, you know.
Jerry Helmers: Well, we’re going into quite a lot of depth in this interview.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, yes, yes. “Surely that’s all possible?” and “Surely you’ll pay for all that.” That’s pretty much how it went. It’s hard for me to really recall now exactly what was said. But I do remember coming home one day and saying: “I don’t want to go to school any more.” And that was sorted out pretty quickly after that. So I think my parents took some action – the sort of thing I imagine any parent would do for their child – which helped to ease the situation.
Jerry Helmers: Didn’t you ever ask that? What they might have done back then…
Marlijn van der Valk: Now that you’ve brought it up, I’m thinking: oh yes, I might well ask that.
Jerry Helmers: You’d do the same for your own children now, absolutely. How would you go about it? Go to the school or to the children’s parents? Give that teacher a piece of your mind?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, well, I don’t know what that’s like. I do think there’s a generation gap, too – in how mums deal with their children now compared to how parents used to. I’d either go and speak to the mums whose children are bullying my child, or to the school. And fortunately, I haven’t had to deal with that sort of thing much yet. My eldest is…
Jerry Helmers: In Year 1, yes. But what do they always say? Little children, little worries; big children, slightly bigger worries. So I wish you all the best for the years to come.

[04:27] Mischief and adolescence
Marlijn van der Valk: I was actually a much bigger worry for my parents.
Jerry Helmers: Really? Were you a difficult teenager?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Go on, tell us. We really want to know everything.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, well, the great thing about our hotel was that when we brought friends round, we hardly ever played outside. Our friends always found it far too interesting at our place. So we’d start playing pranks on the staff and the guests. But in a fun sort of way. We’d just leave notes of twenty guilders – or sometimes twenty-five guilders – in the car park. And if a guest tried to pick it up, we’d quickly pull the money away with a piece of fishing line. Or we’d hide under a flight of stairs and tickle the legs of a man or woman walking up or down the stairs. Yes, we got up to a lot of mischief. Fortunately, that sort of thing didn’t exist back then.
Jerry Helmers: OK, but is this rebellious? It’s not really rebellious, is it? It’s just a bit, well, boyish, or should I say girlish these days?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I suppose so. But I do think it’s a fine line. So what does ‘rebellious’ mean to you?
Jerry Helmers: Well, if you’re constantly getting on people’s nerves. Look, I can imagine that a guest might find it a bit of a laugh. But I can also imagine this: if you’re a guest staying in a hotel – even back then; now we’re pretending you’re really old, but it’s not quite that bad – after a long day’s work or if they’ve got a meeting in the evening, then of course you’re not exactly looking forward to whingeing children playing little pranks on you.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, that’s right. No, I wasn’t that much of a rebel. Just a gentle rebel.
Jerry Helmers: Yes. But weren’t you actually becoming more popular as you moved on from primary school?
Marlijn van der Valk: I’m not sure what it actually means to be popular. I just had a little group of friends. But I had that at primary school too. There was always a little group of four of us – I suppose every young girl has that.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, yes.
Marlijn van der Valk: I did smoke in secret and things like that. I suppose that’s a bit rebellious.
Jerry Helmers: Yes. But no more smoking now?
Marlijn van der Valk: No. I was lucky enough to give it up in 2017. It’s the best gift I’ve ever been able to give myself, apart from my children.
Jerry Helmers: That’s a good present too, certainly. Because when it came to smoking, was that a way of rebelling against something, or was it actually a way of fitting in?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I reckon that once you’ve had a taste of it, you just get hooked. And of course it starts with trying to look cool and saying: “Look what I can do.” About your lungs and coughing and ‘Mum’s coming’. You know, those are all things from back in the day. Yeah, it was all about fitting in.

[07:29] School and choosing a different course
Jerry Helmers: And were you a good pupil, in the sense that you always managed to bring home good school reports?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, yes, yes. A good student. Always does her homework. Not bad at all.
Jerry Helmers: But you never had to repeat a year or anything like that, did you?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, no. I’ve always just carried on walking.
Jerry Helmers: Which school did you go to? Are you talking about secondary school?
Marlijn van der Valk: Just vocational education.
Jerry Helmers: And was that already a step in the direction of what you used to do?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I thought: I didn’t really want to. For quite a long time, I thought: I’m not going to do what the whole family does. I want to do something different for a while. So I also studied interior design in Amsterdam. It was a brilliant time. When it came to the question: ‘Have you done your homework?’, I used to do it at vocational college, but certainly not at that school. So I didn’t finish that course either.
Jerry Helmers: Not the interior design school?
Marlijn van der Valk: The interior design school? No.
Jerry Helmers: But what did you have against it, then?
Marlijn van der Valk: It wasn’t so much to do with school. I really enjoyed that school, too. My dad calls it the ‘cut-and-paste’ school, which is actually quite accurate. But no, I also really enjoyed hanging out in the pub.
Jerry Helmers: And did you do that often?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: So you really did have a full student life.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, yes, yes. And I wasn’t really in a choir or a student society, but I lived on Albert Cuyp Street with my best friend at the time, and that whole world was right at our feet. You seized that opportunity too. I also worked…
Jerry Helmers: You’re allowed to advertise.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I used to work at Het Paardje. I really loved it.
Jerry Helmers: What is Het Paardje?
Marlijn van der Valk: ‘Het Paardje’ is located on Gerard Douplein in Amsterdam.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, here on the square too.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, you know the sort. There are a few pubs there, and that was the one you had to work in. Packed to the rafters, by the way.
Jerry Helmers: So were you the barmaid?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Right. So there is some interest in the hospitality industry after all? Or was it more a case of: ‘I grew up with it at home and now I live in Amsterdam myself, so I need to earn a bit of my own money as well’?
Marlijn van der Valk: Both, actually. I did what I could, and I knew I was good at it. So before you know it, you end up running a little restaurant like that…
Jerry Helmers: Hang on a moment. How do you know you were capable of doing it properly? Because you’re from the Van der Valk family?
Marlijn van der Valk: Ever since I was… I can’t remember any different. I’ve been carrying a tray in my hand ever since I was twelve.
Jerry Helmers: OK.
Marlijn van der Valk: So it’s something you’ve learnt from a young age. You just do it without even thinking about it.
Jerry Helmers: But how do you know if you’re doing it right?
Marlijn van der Valk: I suppose it’s because I never let anything slip. No, I think: look, I really enjoy sitting down at the table with guests and having a bit of a chat. And if that gives you a lot of energy – as it does for me – then you’re good at it.

[10:43] Becoming independent in Amsterdam
Jerry Helmers: But did you discover that whilst you were at Het Paardje? Because that’s where you had to put it into practice, at a different company. So there was no family there to, let’s say, supervise you or give you guidance. What exactly did you learn there? Because suddenly you had to work for a different boss as well.
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, I think it’s about really taking control of my own income. So, basically, growing up a bit. I think that’s what I learnt there. I lived there on my own, so I had to pay my own way. And that didn’t come for free, so I really had to work hard.
Jerry Helmers: Was that the way things were in your family? That you, above all, had to learn to take responsibility for yourself?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, we realised that quite early on.
Jerry Helmers: Because, to put it very bluntly: your parents could certainly have afforded it. That little flat or the student hall of residence you were staying in in Amsterdam – that probably wouldn’t have been a problem. But you had to earn it yourself.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, but at some point you have to learn to stand on your own two feet. And by then I was already 21 or 22. No, no, no. I was, let’s say, twenty at the time. So yes, you can’t just keep relying on your parents forever. At some point, you’re expected to take responsibility for your own life.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but at some point you’re going to grow up even more. Because what did you end up doing after you finished your interior design course?
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, I fell in love with a boy in Harderwijk. So I moved to Harderwijk.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, well, he must have been a really nice lad then.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: The best country in the world.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, in the meantime I’ve also run Cadeaulijn.
Jerry Helmers: Gift range. And you’ve started your own little business.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, it was an online shop that sold experiences. It was great fun to run, too.
Jerry Helmers: Well, what have you been up to?
Marlijn van der Valk: We had deals on jet fighter flights and you could go hot-air ballooning. Proper things to do, so it’s really a way of giving someone the gift of an experience.
Jerry Helmers: But what made you decide to set that up? Because it seems that, at that point, you’d perhaps already made the decision that: maybe I don’t want to work for the Van der Valk group at all. I’m going to set up my own business – an online platform for selling experiences.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, I haven’t. I didn’t set it up myself. My mum set it up and she was the one who got it started. And when I left school – in our family, the rule is: once you’ve left school, you have to get a job. So then it was: what do you want to do? I didn’t really want to go into the hotel business just yet, because that’s too well-trodden a path. And then she came up with Cadeaulijn. So I said: ‘Well, I’d be happy to take that on.’ So I had a small office in Hotel Leusden, in a hotel room, and I ran that platform from there for a year and a half.

[13:32] Gift range and finding out what doesn’t fit
Jerry Helmers: But what have you learnt or done in the past year and a half? Because a year and a half isn’t really that long.
Marlijn van der Valk: That’s where I learnt, above all, what I didn’t want.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, so you didn’t actually enjoy it at all.
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, I still think the concept is pretty cool. I had no background in websites, no knowledge of any of that sort of thing. So it really was a case of knacking away and working hard to get people to visit that platform. We did have some really good deals running, but we just weren’t seeing any takers. At a certain point, it wasn’t bringing in enough. So we decided to pull the plug on it.
Jerry Helmers: But may I ask a critical question in response to that?
Marlijn van der Valk: Certainly.
Jerry Helmers: Did you have enough determination to make a success of it?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, because in the end it was something I didn’t enjoy. And I think that’s the moral of the story. If you do what you enjoy, you do it without even thinking about it. It doesn’t take any effort, you enjoy it, it motivates you, and you get more out of it. And I’ve already experienced that here in Amersfoort too. There was also a small property involved. I didn’t enjoy doing that either.
Jerry Helmers: The little house as well?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I’ll tell you about that in a moment.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, shall we hold on for a moment?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, you’ve got to hold on to that.
Jerry Helmers: Right, let’s keep that in mind for now. And if I forget it, you can remind me. Right. So ‘Cadeaulijn’ wasn’t a success for you personally. At least, you stopped doing it after a year and a half. And after that?
Marlijn van der Valk: After that, I went to Australia.
Jerry Helmers: That’s exactly what you said.
Marlijn van der Valk: Two months. And in Australia, at my very last hostel in Fremantle – it was called Pirates…
Jerry Helmers: That’s south of Perth.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, that’s right.
Jerry Helmers: Were you there too?
Marlijn van der Valk: Oh, really?
Jerry Helmers: In the village of Fremantle.
Marlijn van der Valk: Really?
Jerry Helmers: Really. Well, we’ve got so much in common here.
Marlijn van der Valk: We’ll be talking a bit more about the cupboards later on, so that’ll be nice.
Jerry Helmers: Yes. It’s about twenty kilometres south of Perth. How on earth did you end up there? The city of Perth itself is already…
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I was going to be away for two months, and in eight weeks I’d travelled from Cairns to Sydney.
Jerry Helmers: And you still had two weeks left, because it was a sort of backpacking trip you went on. But was this also a way of discovering yourself?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, I just wanted to get away.
Jerry Helmers: You just wanted to get away, to go travelling.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. At Cadeaulijn, towards the end, I was simply smoking far too much. I’d turn up for work a bit later and go home a bit earlier. I really found myself caught up in a bit of a downward spiral. So I just wanted to get away, and that’s what I did. Then I said: Mum, Dad, I’m off.
Jerry Helmers: And I’d also like to ask: did you pay for it yourself?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, they did sponsor me for that.
Jerry Helmers: Wow. Yes, but not everyone can say that, can they?
Marlijn van der Valk: No.
Jerry Helmers: So that was a really lovely present at the time.
Marlijn van der Valk: Absolutely, absolutely.

[16:43] Recognising family businesses in Australia
Jerry Helmers: But Fremantle.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I was staying in a hostel that was run by a family business, or by the family themselves. The father was at reception, the mother did the housekeeping, one son was behind the bar, and another organised the tours. And all those daughters-in-law of the parents were doing all sorts of things too. And as I sat there watching, I thought: yeah, bloody hell, I’ve got that too.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, you’ll recognise this.
Marlijn van der Valk: I had this in the Netherlands. And I thought it was so lovely at the time. And it gave me such a warm feeling. Then I was on the plane back home and I thought about what my father had said: “Yes, but Marlijn, when you come back, you’d better know what you want. Because you can’t just carry on dithering.” So I quickly grabbed my notebook and jotted down a list of what I wanted to do next. And at the top of the list was: working for my brother in Amersfoort.
Jerry Helmers: If I do the maths, that’s about 24 years or so. Am I giving away your age now?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, but not… I came back in June 2012.
Jerry Helmers: Now I’ve got to do some quick maths. And now it’s 37, so that’s 37 minus 14. Well, I wasn’t too far off.
Marlijn van der Valk: Exactly. So I’ve been here for fourteen years now too. I came back and a week later I rang my brother. I said, “Hey Gert, shall we have a coffee?” So there I was, sitting at a high table here, enjoying a cup of coffee with him. And I said: “I think something’s going on over there that’s not right. And I can see something happening over there too.”
Jerry Helmers: So you’re talking about your can of beer in the hotel.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, about what I saw happening in the restaurant. There was a member of staff who went to bring some coffee and was also supposed to ring it up, but he never went past the till. I said: “I think something’s not quite right there.” And I think he rang me the next day: “Marlijn, would you please come and work for me? Because I don’t spot things like that. And I’d be glad if you could do that.”
Jerry Helmers: He could do with your help.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Well, I’ve never left since. But what sort of role did you start in there? Did you start out on the shop floor yourself, working your way up from the bottom, or did you go straight into a managerial role?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, it did turn into a managerial role quite quickly. He really was his right-hand man.

[19:05] Working in the hotel from a young age
Jerry Helmers: How did the staff feel about that? Because, of course, there are a huge number of people who work at Van der Valk. It’s a big organisation and everyone wants to build a career at Van der Valk – and that’s certainly possible.
Marlijn van der Valk: But not as quickly as me, I reckon. Because, of course, my education started right from the cradle. So by the time I was twelve, I was already cleaning rooms – including those of some well-known Dutch people.
Jerry Helmers: Well, now you’re laughing and glancing at your PR lady, wondering: should I tell this or not? Do you have a juicy anecdote involving a well-known Dutch person by name? Or just mention his or her initials. You find this question a bit tricky, don’t you? Well, at least tell us that juicy anecdote. And then I’ll see later, once we’ve heard that anecdote, whether we’ve got another one…
Marlijn van der Valk: I’ll give it some thought.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, let’s try again later. My bucket list is getting rather long now, given everything we still need to discuss – things we can’t sort out on the spot.
Marlijn van der Valk: Right, I’m not going to mention his name, but he’s a folk singer from Amsterdam who’d been having a bit of a party in his room. And as a girl of twelve, thirteen or fourteen at the time, you inevitably come across things you perhaps shouldn’t have encountered at that age. With sheets that were no longer on the beds, let’s put it that way.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, you’re being rather cryptic there. Why not make it a bit less cryptic?.
Marlijn van der Valk: Do you want the full story?
Jerry Helmers: Actually, yes. And what I’d really like to know is: how did that affect you as a twelve-year-old girl? And what lessons did you take away from that for the rest of your life? Because, looking at you like this, I don’t get the impression that it turned into a trauma.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, these are just fun stories to tell in the pub.
Jerry Helmers: Well, can we order a beer here?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, that’s possible. We’re in the Skybar.
Jerry Helmers: We’ve got a lovely glass here. No, I’d like to hear a bit more detail.
Marlijn van der Valk: Right. Well, let me put it this way: the idea wasn’t that there were only two people in that room that night. But that there were actually a few more. A bit more than three, I reckon. It was that sort of mess. So the telly wasn’t in its usual spot, the beds weren’t in their usual spots. The whole room had simply been rearranged.
Jerry Helmers: So what do you do as a twelve-year-old girl?
Marlijn van der Valk: Putting everything back in its place.
Jerry Helmers: Putting everything back in its place.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: But can you still remember what you were thinking?
Marlijn van der Valk: It made you think: ‘Oh, so this is what grown-ups do.’ At some point, it starts to feel a bit normal. I’d sometimes walk into a room where all the furniture had been nicked.
Jerry Helmers: Oh really? Is the room completely empty?
Marlijn van der Valk: Completely empty. From head to toe, as far as possible. That’s why everything is stuck down in those rooms, nine times out of ten. People really do take absolutely everything with them.
Jerry Helmers: So, in your experience, it’s not just about those shampoo bottles, although I don’t think that’s allowed any more.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, these days they’re… Yes, just the mini ones. They’re quite cute for the home, and that’s good publicity too.
Jerry Helmers: At the end of the day, it’s just marketing.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. Towels are provided.

[22:34] Respect for housekeeping
Jerry Helmers: But what do you learn from that? Because you’re looking back on it now, and you’re telling these anecdotes with a bit of a wink. Of course, I do understand that you don’t want to name names, but I can’t help wondering: who could it have been? But what do you learn from that? You’re now leading a group of people. What is the foundation that shapes you?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I think you really come to respect the people who have to tidy it up. I was fourteen back then, so that’s just what you did. And I thought other things were important too. So yes, this was just another room that was a right mess. It’s just that – and you’ve got that now too… For example, if someone has harmed themselves, they’re the first ones who have to discover it. And I think that’s the biggest lesson I’ll take with me for the rest of my life from my time as a housekeeper back then: that you gain respect for that, and that it’s not just a matter of cleaning a room.
Jerry Helmers: Have you ever known anyone who might have taken their own life?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, thankfully not. Not in the hotel room. I did have an epileptic fit once in the restaurant, which my other little brother and I managed to sort out. I actually still remember that quite clearly.
Jerry Helmers: About a bloke who fell ill?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, he wasn’t feeling well. And we had to attach the AED pads to him as well. And that thing shouts quite loudly throughout your whole restaurant: “No shock.” Then you have to step in. Sometimes it’s not just that man – you have to do something about him – but you also have to deal with the rest of your guests. Because people just walk out the door without paying, so you have to keep them inside again. But you don’t want them in the same room either. Luckily, my younger brother Max was with me. That man was actually quite heavy and completely motionless. You can’t just pick him up like that; he had to stay lying down.
Jerry Helmers: Was that man on his own? Wasn’t he with his wife?
Marlijn van der Valk: She was in shock too. So we laid her down together. My little brother rang 112 and I attached the pads. He was foaming at the mouth as well. So there’s nothing you can do about that either. You just have to wait for the paramedics to arrive and listen to what the AED says. But we didn’t know it was a…
Jerry Helmers: No, you might think it was a heart attack.
Marlijn van der Valk: Or a cardiac arrest. He’d turned completely blue, too. And at that moment, you just go into full-on control mode. And you do that to the best of your ability, because there’s no other way to handle it. But I do remember: my little brother and I – and I was still smoking back then – walked outside, sat down on a bench and looked at our hands. They were both just shaking like mad. And I started crying. That’s when all those emotions came flooding out. Wow, what on earth had we just been through? We were still so young.
Jerry Helmers: Absolutely. Can you cope with that? You support one another within the family, but you’re now responsible for the day-to-day running of things here as well. Have you come up with a protocol for that, or is it purely a matter of leading naturally, rather than thinking in terms of protocols?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, this is all down to natural instincts. Just sort it out, then look each other in the eye and ask: did we do the right thing? Yes, we did the right thing. Could we have done something differently? Perhaps, but not at that moment. And we carry on.
Jerry Helmers: Have you been in touch since with the gentleman who fell ill and his wife?
Marlijn van der Valk: No. His wife later let us know that everything had gone well, or that he was back home. And that was the most important thing. So we’ll leave it at that.
Jerry Helmers: But wouldn’t you still have wanted to ask him something?
Marlijn van der Valk: No.
Jerry Helmers: I reckon that’s quite cool, then.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, what do I need to know? Because I know what happened.
Jerry Helmers: Well, I suppose: perhaps it might help you come to terms with it a bit more if a man like that were to thank you in person, once he’d fully recovered.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, but that’s not up to me.
Jerry Helmers: No, that’s true.
Marlijn van der Valk: And I can’t let it bother me if someone doesn’t do that.
Jerry Helmers: You simply look at yourself in the mirror and realise that, at that moment, you acted in good faith.
Marlijn van der Valk: Look, we meet so many people in this hotel. Every day. Day in, day out.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but it’s not as though this happens every day.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, no, no. Fortunately not.
Jerry Helmers: Let’s knock on wood.
Marlijn van der Valk: Let’s knock on wood, indeed.

[27:49] Relationship with Chris
Jerry Helmers: Of course, at work you draw on your experiences when acting, but you’ve also got a private life alongside your job. At one point, you moved to Harderwijk because you’d fallen head over heels in love. But is that actually the man you ended up…
Marlijn van der Valk: No.
Jerry Helmers: So, in the end, things didn’t work out in Harderwijk after all, did they?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, no. We moved to Amersfoort back then and then went from Amersfoort to Amsterdam. My current husband and I got together in 2019. But even before 2019, we’d already been best friends for nine years.
Jerry Helmers: And you never thought: ‘He’s actually quite a nice bloke’? His name’s Chris, isn’t it?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Did you ever think to yourself: ‘Chris, I’d quite like to have a slice of toast with you one day’?
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, sometimes. But it has to be a two-way thing.
Jerry Helmers: Absolutely. You can eat that rusk all by yourself.
Marlijn van der Valk: But we were also really worried that our friendship would suffer as a result.
Jerry Helmers: Because of your feelings?
Marlijn van der Valk: No. And in the end, that didn’t happen either.
Jerry Helmers: No.
Marlijn van der Valk: And after that, things moved really quickly. So in 2019, towards the end of 2019, the day after my birthday, we started dating.
Jerry Helmers: How did that go?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, you’ve already got a date, haven’t you?
Jerry Helmers: Well, you’re a bit younger than me, but apparently these days there are all sorts of rules about dating, pre-dating, post-dating and when you’re officially allowed to tell the outside world that you’re in a relationship. I find that quite remarkable.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I think all that – exclusivity and so on…
Jerry Helmers: It is rather complicated. And they all seem to be protocols as well.
Marlijn van der Valk: I’m the sort of person who thinks you really should ask the guy – or the girl – “Do you want to be my boyfriend or girlfriend?” I think that’s really sweet. I really like that too.
Jerry Helmers: It’s just like back in the day at school: “Do you want to go out?” But who asked who? Now I do feel a bit like Linda de Mol.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I have to be completely honest: I don’t think we did it quite like that. I was sitting on the other side of the table and then I thought: blimey, I can feel something. There were actually twenty people sitting between us. He was at one end and I was at the other. And then I thought: oh, oh, this one’s nice. I’ve never felt this way before.
Jerry Helmers: This one’s more fun than Harderwijk.
Marlijn van der Valk: This is more fun than Harderwijk.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, exactly. What was – and what is – so great about him?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, he’s just always happy.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, that’s nice.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, Chris is always happy, always smiling. When he’s indoors, he’s funny. He’s lovely. He makes people… He’s a really cool dad.

[30:41] Work, entrepreneurship and brainstorming together
Jerry Helmers: But he doesn’t work in the hotel industry, does he?
Marlijn van der Valk: No.
Jerry Helmers: So you really do have something new to tell each other when you get home.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, every working day. I love it.
Jerry Helmers: So what’s he up to?
Marlijn van der Valk: Actually, what doesn’t he do? No, he also runs a family business, on the other side of the motorway, with his brother and sister. He stepped down from that in 2023. He’s helped start-ups simply to grow their businesses. He helped me with the website, as he’s quite good at IT.
Jerry Helmers: But do you mean the Van der Valk website?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, the Van der Valk and Club Toekan websites. Club Toekan is that little company I was just talking about.
Jerry Helmers: That’s right, we’ll be heading there in a moment.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. And he’s just started working at Tesla.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, so he’s an enterprising sort. How exciting are the stories you tell each other in the evenings? Because you can no doubt learn something from him too, from what he gets up to at work. How does that banter between you work? Because the initial infatuation has now faded. It’s turned into love. He’s become your partner. You can see he’s a fantastic father to your children too. We’ll come back to that, as number four is on the way. But he’s also become a bit of an ally to you, hasn’t he? Can I put it that way?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. But I suppose that’s the case in every relationship, isn’t it? I don’t know.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, so the question I’m asking…
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. No, we always go for a nice walk. Then we don’t have our phones on, and we’ve got a bit of time to have a chat.
Jerry Helmers: So do you enjoy going for a stroll around the Vondelpark?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: So you live in Amsterdam?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. And that’s where we talk about everything. Just how the children are getting on, what I’ve been up to at the hotel, what he’s been doing.
Jerry Helmers: Do you challenge each other as well? Like, do you ever say: ‘Well, Chris, I’d have handled that differently if necessary’?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Does he challenge you?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Sometimes a bit too much?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: When was the last time he challenged you? When he said: ‘Marlin, you could have handled that differently.’.
Marlijn van der Valk: Good question. We’ve actually had quite an unusual time. So over the past three or four months, I haven’t really faced much opposition. I can’t think of a specific example off the top of my head.
Jerry Helmers: OK.
Marlijn van der Valk: No, but I think it’s healthy for each partner to challenge the other every now and then to see if they’re really on the right track. Because having a different perspective or a different take on a subject is quite nice from time to time. In business, of course, we do work on things where he’ll say: he has an idea that’s sometimes so much stronger than how I want to do something, that he’ll say, “Yes, but that’s completely impossible, because you’re forgetting steps five, six and seven.” So he does rein me in a bit. Because I can be impulsive and sometimes a bit hasty, and he can bring me back to my senses for a moment when that happens.

[34:14] A family with four children
Jerry Helmers: You also said he’s a lovely dad. Well, I suppose so. Because you’ve got three children who are very close in age, and number four is on the way. I’d almost say this might be a bit of a Linda de Mol-style question, and the issue is always: would you ask the same question of a man? But anyway, just to you: how do you manage it?
Marlijn van der Valk: I come from a family of five and he comes from a family of five, so we’re used to growing up in a large family. So we did look at each other at a swimming pool on Bonaire and ask: shall we go for a fourth? And the answer actually came quite quickly: yes. It just comes naturally to him. He’s kind to them, plays with them, and listens to them. He’s very straightforward. So we really do agree on how we’re going to bring them up.
Jerry Helmers: Because children can also drive a wedge between their parents, if they go about it cleverly. Does that happen in your family too?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. We’ll have three boys and one girl in a moment. And that girl is the one doing it.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, right. But does she take after her mum a bit in that respect? After all, young girls often look to their mums as a point of reference, don’t they? Are you one of those…
Marlijn van der Valk: I really won’t answer that.
Jerry Helmers: Are you that sort of tactical strategist?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, yes.
Jerry Helmers: Why are you a lovely mum?
Marlijn van der Valk: I suppose I’m just really sweet. I really love cuddles. I’m also quite… No, well, they can do quite a lot with me, too.

[36:00] What she has learnt from her own upbringing
Jerry Helmers: What, for example, did you learn from your own parents about your own upbringing? Of course, you don’t realise that when you’re young yourself, because that’s what we’ve been talking about. You can also be a bit of a terror as a child. But as you get older yourself – and certainly when you have children of your own – you realise, looking back, that your parents may well have done a very good job, or that there are certain things you’d actually like to do differently when bringing up your own children. Looking back now, were your parents a good example of how to bring up children, or how one ought to bring up children?
Marlijn van der Valk: In some ways, yes, and in others, no. We just always had to have something to do. We weren’t lazy children. So we were always either working, playing outside, doing our homework, or simply going to school. Or doing a lot of sport. They thought that was very important too. We all played team sports. And they would say: “Just give it a go. Give it a go, because if you don’t try, you’ll never know.” And I think we’ve carried that approach with us. Go on, climb that tree. I’ll help you, but you have to give it a go. And don’t be afraid.”.
Jerry Helmers: And what are you doing differently now? Or what would you like to do differently compared to how your parents did things?
Marlijn van der Valk: They’re listening too, aren’t they?
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that’s why.
Marlijn van der Valk: I did grow up living in the hotel whilst they were working a lot. I also remember once when I’d wet the bed and walked downstairs in my wet pyjamas. Always at the same table. I can still remember exactly which table it was. That restaurant isn’t there any more now, either. But I do always want to have dinner with my children, for example. And I think it’s really important to put them to bed myself. I also think it’s really important to have breakfast with them. So it’s really those sort of things that I’d like to do differently.
Jerry Helmers: Looking back now, do you blame your parents for that?
Marlijn van der Valk: No. I had a brilliant time back then. No, and that’s just how it was. And I really didn’t miss out on anything as a child, as a little girl.

[38:31] Pregnancy and putting things into perspective
Jerry Helmers: No, exactly. But the fourth one’s on its way. We’ll be recording this podcast at the end of May 2026. May I ask when your due date is?
Marlijn van der Valk: 30 October.
Jerry Helmers: 30 October this year. So you’ve been on the road for about three and a half or four months now, I reckon, if I do a quick calculation.
Marlijn van der Valk: Seventeen weeks now.
Jerry Helmers: Seventeen weeks. Is everything alright?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: There were a few bumps along the way, weren’t there?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. But things are going well now. We had four weeks of uncertainty, but it’s all turned out fine.
Jerry Helmers: All the tests were done, and everything came back clear – thank goodness. Is that also a time when you learn to put things into perspective again? Because, on the one hand – let me put it this way – you’re in the cut-throat world of business. On the other hand, of course, you just want to be a decent wife, have a happy marriage, be there for your children and simply enjoy a good life. Do you also learn at that point to put things into perspective, realising that that good life or family life is far more important than that cut-throat business world?
Marlijn van der Valk: You do tend to think about it a bit more. You only have one chance to get it right for this little one. So yes, you take it a bit easier, you start eating more healthily again, and you’ve started exercising a bit again. I wasn’t here as much, though.
Jerry Helmers: It’s strange that you need that sort of thing to happen – when things aren’t going your way at the start of the pregnancy – that you apparently need it to put things into perspective.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, that’s one of those unpleasant moments that makes you pause for a moment and reflect.
Jerry Helmers: But thankfully, things are going well.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: That’s lovely. We’re just having another little boy.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Well, I suppose you’ve heard this many times before: the Valk dynasty is continuing to grow in this way, isn’t it? Will your children go on to work in this hotel too?
Marlijn van der Valk: I don’t know. That’s entirely up to them.
Jerry Helmers: Or do you also say: they should just do what they enjoy?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Because they, too, are essentially being brought up on it from an early age, aren’t they?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes and no. You see, I was living in a hotel, of course. So I really got a feel for what goes on in a hotel like that.
Jerry Helmers: And now, of course, you live in a perfectly ordinary house.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. So, look, we’ll either go to the Toekan or to Mum’s hotel. And they absolutely love that. Then they come along behind the bar as well. They’ve got a member of staff here, Jesse. They absolutely adore him. When he’s there, they even run off with plates when he’s around.
Jerry Helmers: Haha.
Marlijn van der Valk: And so there they are, sitting at the table like little ones, each with a guest’s plate.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, it’s brilliant. But anyway, they could, of course, decide at a later date to all go and work at Tesla.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, certainly.
Jerry Helmers: Where Chris, your husband, works.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: So, of course, they can look at it from both sides, to some extent.

[41:12] Theses on name, leadership and emotion
Jerry Helmers: At the start of this podcast, I said: I’ve got a few propositions for you.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: And you basically left it up to me, saying: ‘Well, Jerry, you decide when to bring up the point. Shall we go over them now?’
Marlijn van der Valk: Bring it on.
Jerry Helmers: Would you rather be known as a Van der Valk or as Marlijn, regardless of your surname?
Marlijn van der Valk: Sometimes one thing, sometimes the other. I sometimes say: I use – or abuse – the Van der Valk name whenever I need to. But sometimes it’s also really nice just to be Marlijn.
Jerry Helmers: When are you misusing the name?
Marlijn van der Valk: When I need to book a table at a restaurant.
Jerry Helmers: In your own restaurant?
Marlijn van der Valk: No, in another restaurant that’s full. But sometimes people there are quite sensitive about it.
Jerry Helmers: Really? “Van der Valk’s coming round for dinner?”
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, yes.
Jerry Helmers: Right. At home, do you say ‘Van der Veen’ or ‘Van der Valk’?
Marlijn van der Valk: Just Marlijn. But the letterbox just says ‘Van der Veen family’.
Jerry Helmers: Right. Back at home in Amsterdam, you’re still a bit anonymous, aren’t you?.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Should a hotel be run based on intuition and an understanding of people, or should it be managed primarily on the basis of figures and data?
Marlijn van der Valk: Intuition and an understanding of human nature.
Jerry Helmers: But aren’t figures and data important too?
Marlijn van der Valk: They’re very important. But I think we women have a certain intuition. Perhaps men do too, mind you. I can’t really say, because I’m not a man, of course. But I think women have a sense that, intuitively, can tell us more than data ever could.

[42:53] Club Toekan and stopping based on figures
Marlijn van der Valk: But I’m torn on this, because it is actually quite fun. After all, we have Club Toekan. My gut feeling would be: give it another go. Invest in it again. Because it’s not really taking off. We’d set up a VR department and a restaurant there during the pandemic, and opened straight after it ended. But I’d underestimated the significance of a toucan. And that venture didn’t really have the same future prospects as Van der Valk’s toucan. After all, it was also called Club Toekan. We were running a different kind of toucan there. It didn’t fit under our brand. It was also a completely different concept. Partly because the attention we needed to give it simply didn’t materialise. And in the end, based on the figures and data, we pulled the plug and said: we’re simply not going to do this anymore. Stick to your core business; don’t go off on tangents.
Jerry Helmers: Even though you’d actually already had a gut feeling about it?
Marlijn van der Valk: I did have a feeling it wasn’t going to work out. But you do hold out hope. Hope springs eternal.
Jerry Helmers: Hope, too, has its limits.
Marlijn van der Valk: Hope is also waiting for disappointment.
Jerry Helmers: Hope is also waiting for disappointment. We must keep that firmly in mind. Right, one more. As a woman working at Van der Valk: would you rather be underestimated and surprise everyone, or be taken seriously from day one but have to perform consistently?
Marlijn van der Valk: Oh no, the first one.
Jerry Helmers: So you’d rather be underestimated and surprise everyone. Why?
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, I actually said to someone yesterday: when I first started working here, of course I knew how the reception worked, but I really wanted to wear the ‘trainee’ badge. Because then you can make mistakes. Guests are more forgiving of those. And you can surprise them. So you can offer that little bit extra, when people aren’t expecting it. I find that moment of surprise much more enjoyable than shouting at the top of my voice. That’s just not me.
Jerry Helmers: Right. But of course, that might also be the essence of hospitality, mightn’t it? Having the courage and the desire to surprise people.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.

[45:33] Innovation, AI and the future of the hotel
Jerry Helmers: Do you want to be remembered in the future as someone who successfully carried on the family business, or as someone who actually modernised it? You could choose both, but then you’d have to explain the distinction between them, and why you’d choose both.
Marlijn van der Valk: OK. I’d say it’s both innovative and a continuation. We’re living in a time of massive development. Including, of course, AI. And I have a husband who knows a great deal about it and is doing a lot of research into it. I see that as a truly innovative approach, which I’d like to bring to the company through him. That would be great.
Jerry Helmers: But don’t you have specialists within the group who are working on that as well?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, that’s true. It’s quite a large department, actually. But that’s not within my control. So if you’re really asking… Well, yes, it could well be like that. And innovative.
Jerry Helmers: Do you ever consider – as a sort of follow-up question to this proposition or this dilemma – what things might be like twenty years from now? What will life be like in this hotel or in the hospitality industry by then?
Marlijn van der Valk: I think twenty years is a very long time.
Jerry Helmers: Ten years?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes. I hope that the attention is still… That we haven’t become too automated and that we can still offer human attention.

[47:21] Tips for a career in the hospitality industry
Jerry Helmers: To those listening who may be considering a stepping stone, the next step or a further step in an existing career in the hotel industry, or perhaps there are also listeners who would like to work in the hotel sector: do you have three useful tips that people can take away to help them be successful – or at least happy – in the hospitality industry?
Marlijn van der Valk: Well, luckily, in the hospitality industry, you might have to marry a Van der Valk.
Jerry Helmers: You’re no longer available.
Marlijn van der Valk: No. There are already loads that aren’t occupied, but a whole new crop is on the way. Let’s see. It sounds like a bit of a cliché, but just do what you genuinely enjoy. And make sure you’ve got good people around you, because you really don’t have to be able to do everything. And keep scrutinising your product. Keep challenging yourself, or find people who can challenge you to improve.
Jerry Helmers: Critical. But does that apply to the chambermaids as well?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, certainly.
Jerry Helmers: So they need to keep challenging themselves too?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I do think so. If only to take that step up. I do like ambitious people.
Jerry Helmers: Right, so another tip is: be ambitious and let that shine through. Do you always have to talk about your ambition, or should you just let it happen?
Marlijn van der Valk: I think it’s a good idea to speak up if you don’t have the power to take that step yourself. But I think you stand out when you show your ambition.
Jerry Helmers: Yes.
Marlijn van der Valk: So there are definitely some who stand out. Here in this building, we’ve definitely got a few who stand out. People you notice.
Jerry Helmers: But did they actually say that themselves?
Marlijn van der Valk: No.
Jerry Helmers: But you can see it, can’t you?.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, you can see that. You do tend to involve them in more projects as well. Last week we held an ambassadors’ day. There are some supervisors amongst them, but there are also staff members who stand out from the crowd.
Jerry Helmers: Either marry a Van der Valk or stand out.
Marlijn van der Valk: And just be yourself.
Jerry Helmers: And stay true to yourself.
Marlijn van der Valk: Being your authentic self.

[49:51] A look back at the conversation
Jerry Helmers: Have you remained true to yourself in this podcast, now that we’re nearing the end? Because we’ve only just met for the first time today.
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, I think we could have carried on chatting for another three hours.
Jerry Helmers: I also think we could have gone on a bit longer. Were there any questions that made you think… Or are there, for example, certain things you might have liked to say yourself? Did you say everything you wanted to say?
Marlijn van der Valk: Certainly.
Jerry Helmers: Yes?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: OK.
Marlijn van der Valk: I may have said a bit too much at times.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, that’s really good to hear. Did I do it right?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: OK.
Marlijn van der Valk: You’re a lovely person to talk to.
Jerry Helmers: Well, that’s lovely to hear, in any case. So I hope I’ll be able to come back and speak to you again sometime. In ten years’ time, for example. I asked earlier: what will life be like here in ten years’ time? Will we be able to look back at this podcast and see where you’re at in life by then?
Marlijn van der Valk: Yes, that sounds like fun.

[50:47] Closing remarks
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